magicmikey wrote in post #17442253
I have been following this thread from the beginning, as I considered buying and then did buy a 7D Mark II. I have no doubt that some people may have purchased bodies with issues. There will always be a number of bodies that have issues regardless of the brand and specific model. That said, I've seen a lot of comparisons of the 7D Mark II to full-frame cameras like the the 5D Mark III and the D750. I have both a 5D Mark III and a 7D Mark II (and had a 7D and 60D prior to that.) What I have found is that a full-frame body is a lot more forgiving of slight focus errors than the 7D Mark II. As many have alluded to in the threads on multiple forums, this is due to the high pixel density of the 7D Mark II sensor. In practice, what that means is that your technique has to be a lot more precise with the 7D Mark II because the errors are considerably more noticeable with it than the with the 5D Mark III. Please note I am not saying it has more focus errors than the 5D Mark III – just that they are more noticeable.
When I got my 7D Mark II, the first thing I did was to check the focusing. It did show consistent front focusing will all of my lenses, ranging from +11 to +17. With MFA, I was able to correct it with all of my lenses except my 50mm f/1.4, which was still front focusing at +20. I checked it on my 5D III and it needs +17 on it so the lens is going in for adjustment. Once I set the MFA for each lens, I started taking lots of photos. I photograph studio shots, live performance (dance shows & magic shows) and events (I was the official photographer for a photo conference, I cover magic conventions and robotics competitions.) I quickly became aware that I needed to use higher shutter speeds to avoid showing camera movement in my photos. With my 85mm f/1.8, I have to shoot at 1/320 second. or faster or I see camera movement pretty regularly. I had always assumed I could shoot at 1/125 to 1/200 second to get a steady shot but that is not the case. (I've been doing photography for 37+ years and, apparently, my hands aren't as steady as they used to be or they never were and I didn't see it in my film days because we didn't pixel peep.)
Once I started being more conscious of my steadying technique for the camera, my keeper rate went up considerably. In addition, I also started noticing that the images from my 5D III weren't as perfect as I thought. Carefully reviewing them, I could see slight focus misses too. The difference was that it is much harder to see on the 5D III images and it takes very little sharpening in Photoshop to improve them. Unfortunately, it takes more to correct focus issues with a 7D II image and it usually doesn't look as good when completed as a corrected 5D III image.
My point behind this is that I think some people are mistaking the camera needing more precise technique with being faulty, especially when comparing it to the 5D III. Do I like that the camera requires a significant amount of MFA with all my lenses? No, that's why I sent it in for adjustment. As recommended by my CPS repair contact, I included my 17-55 f/2.8 lens for the technician to see how much MFA was needed. (My 17-55 needs +17 at the long end and +14 at the wide end.) They will be back in my hands on Monday so I will post back later on that. On the other hand, the fact that I can MFA for all of my lenses to fine tune them is a plus to me. None of my lenses were dead on with my 5D III, although they needed much less adjustment.
With the much higher resolutions of today's digital sensors, plus the complexity of the focusing systems, I think it's unrealistic to think that all bodies and lenses should focus perfectly right out of the box. Yes, I agree they should be close but dead on is a lot to ask. The amount of precision needed for a lens and body to focus perfectly makes it likely that there will be some slight adjustments needed and MFA provides that. (I do agree that the 7D Mark II seems to have a lot more front focus issues than it should and seems to require greater MFA.)
Finally, if your 7D Mark II has significant focusing inconsistencies, that is a different story. My camera has been very consistent. It just front focused. Hopefully, that will have been corrected by Canon when they repaired it this week.
I have been following this thread from the beginning, as I considered buying and then did buy a 7D Mark II. I have no doubt that some people may have purchased bodies with issues. There will always be a number of bodies that have issues regardless of the brand and specific model. That said, I've seen a lot of comparisons of the 7D Mark II to full-frame cameras like the the 5D Mark III and the D750. I have both a 5D Mark III and a 7D Mark II (and had a 7D and 60D prior to that.) What I have found is that a full-frame body is a lot more forgiving of slight focus errors than the 7D Mark II. As many have alluded to in the threads on multiple forums, this is due to the high pixel density of the 7D Mark II sensor. In practice, what that means is that your technique has to be a lot more precise with the 7D Mark II because the errors are considerably more noticeable with it than the with the 5D Mark III. Please note I am not saying it has more focus errors than the 5D Mark III – just that they are more noticeable.
When I got my 7D Mark II, the first thing I did was to check the focusing. It did show consistent front focusing will all of my lenses, ranging from +11 to +17. With MFA, I was able to correct it with all of my lenses except my 50mm f/1.4, which was still front focusing at +20. I checked it on my 5D III and it needs +17 on it so the lens is going in for adjustment. Once I set the MFA for each lens, I started taking lots of photos. I photograph studio shots, live performance (dance shows & magic shows) and events (I was the official photographer for a photo conference, I cover magic conventions and robotics competitions.) I quickly became aware that I needed to use higher shutter speeds to avoid showing camera movement in my photos. With my 85mm f/1.8, I have to shoot at 1/320 second. or faster or I see camera movement pretty regularly. I had always assumed I could shoot at 1/125 to 1/200 second to get a steady shot but that is not the case. (I've been doing photography for 37+ years and, apparently, my hands aren't as steady as they used to be or they never were and I didn't see it in my film days because we didn't pixel peep.)
Once I started being more conscious of my steadying technique for the camera, my keeper rate went up considerably. In addition, I also started noticing that the images from my 5D III weren't as perfect as I thought. Carefully reviewing them, I could see slight focus misses too. The difference was that it is much harder to see on the 5D III images and it takes very little sharpening in Photoshop to improve them. Unfortunately, it takes more to correct focus issues with a 7D II image and it usually doesn't look as good when completed as a corrected 5D III image.
My point behind this is that I think some people are mistaking the camera needing more precise technique with being faulty, especially when comparing it to the 5D III. Do I like that the camera requires a significant amount of MFA with all my lenses? No, that's why I sent it in for adjustment. As recommended by my CPS repair contact, I included my 17-55 f/2.8 lens for the technician to see how much MFA was needed. (My 17-55 needs +17 at the long end and +14 at the wide end.) They will be back in my hands on Monday so I will post back later on that. On the other hand, the fact that I can MFA for all of my lenses to fine tune them is a plus to me. None of my lenses were dead on with my 5D III, although they needed much less adjustment.
With the much higher resolutions of today's digital sensors, plus the complexity of the focusing systems, I think it's unrealistic to think that all bodies and lenses should focus perfectly right out of the box. Yes, I agree they should be close but dead on is a lot to ask. The amount of precision needed for a lens and body to focus perfectly makes it likely that there will be some slight adjustments needed and MFA provides that. (I do agree that the 7D Mark II seems to have a lot more front focus issues than it should and seems to require greater MFA.)
Finally, if your 7D Mark II has significant focusing inconsistencies, that is a different story. My camera has been very consistent. It just front focused. Hopefully, that will have been corrected by Canon when they repaired it this week.
So well written, even for this disgruntled owner. I too have noticed that my canera seems to pick up a lot of movement and I have to shoot around 1/400 handheld to not see it in my images. Not an issue on my 40D and I think that's part of the frustration. How can my old ass low end canera take better shots than my mark II? That being said, I just shot a good amount of test shots. To my eyes, the live view is sharper than viewfinder. I posted them all the my Flickr. It's not major, but annoying.
