Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 12 Nov 2014 (Wednesday) 14:59
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

 
CyberDyneSystems
Admin (type T-2000)
Avatar
50,109 posts
Gallery: 161 photos
Likes: 6822
Joined Apr 2003
Location: Rhode Island USA
     
Mar 05, 2015 10:25 |  #2041

rejay14 wrote in post #17459432 (external link)
I received a loaner 7D2 and 70-200 2.8 IS II late this afternoon. The pictures are amazingly sharp, sharper than I've seen on the body yet.

Unless: you put the AF into Servo and shoot a stationary object. I tried the same 3 shots, on a rock on my end table.

7DII: Single Shot: sharp, AI Focus: sharp, AI Servo: fuzzy
5D3: Single Shot: sharp, AI Focus: Sharp, AI Servo: sharp

The flaw is perhaps the "advanced" AF unit gets fooled if pointed at a stationary object in AI Servo? If someone else can try this out too and let us know the results, that'd be awesome.


This is interesting info.
There have been proponents of always selecting the "correct" AF mode going back to the 20D/1D2 era,.
I personally have always been of the "set it to backfocus button and leave it in AI Servo 95% of the time" with good results, but a new AF system could surely change that.


GEAR LIST
CDS' HOT LINKS
Jake Hegnauer Photography (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Frodge
Goldmember
Avatar
3,080 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 145
Joined Nov 2012
     
Mar 05, 2015 11:54 |  #2042

I've read all these threads. My best guess is that at the very least, Canon didn't test this system thoroughly enough. If a 1Dx can track beautifully, than a so can another camera that Canon makes. (I know it's a different system, just stating tha canon knows how to do this) Seems like they rushed it out to the market. Then you get into the fact that there is a qc issue. There is no way in my mind that you can get multiple bad copies, then all f a sudden a good one without having production problems, either materially or the way that they are calibrated. There's a definitive problem on way or the other. I think both my points hold water. Hopefully canon makes well on this for you folks.


_______________
“It's kind of fun to do the impossible.” - Walt Disney.
Equipment: Tokina 12-24mm, Canon 40mm 2.8, Tamron 17-50 2.8 XR Di, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 50mm 1.8, Tamron 70-300VC / T3I and 60D

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Triplexbee
Member
Avatar
183 posts
Gallery: 15 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 251
Joined Aug 2013
Location: Peterborough
     
Mar 05, 2015 12:30 |  #2043

huntersdad wrote in post #17461729 (external link)
I think they tried to make a 1Dx version for a cropped body shooting 10 frames a second. I think they got it 90% right.

The issue is the system seems overly sensitive to movement in it's predictions. It seem to think that going from a stand still to flat out movement is a consistent process - rate at the beginning, the middle and the end are all the same. That's not correct. I think that's why you are seeing people shooting moving objects miss 1 or 2, get 1 or 2, and then miss again. It misses from overpredicting, then the subject catches up to the prediction, then the prediction slows but the bird speeds up. This is why I have mentioned on here to let the AF track for a split second before hitting the shutter button. The camera builds a database of information with critical movement data in it and the more points it can analyze, the more accurate it is.

The above sums up exactly what I now think about this body.

I have also found that bumping focus now takes on extra importance 'to get right', I can't word this correctly but through practice you get more familiar with just exactly when it's needed.


flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ptcanon3ti
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
8,391 posts
Gallery: 442 photos
Best ofs: 5
Likes: 6488
Joined Sep 2012
Location: NJ
     
Mar 05, 2015 12:33 |  #2044

I still think canon out thunk themselves and over complicated the focus system needlessly. Put the 1Dx or even the 5D3 focus system in it and be done. Then reap the even greater rewards....I'd have one. :)


Paul
https://www.flickr.com​/photos/petshots/ (external link)
Body - Nikon D750
Lenses - Nikon 20 f1.8 / Nikon 16-35 f4 / Sigma 105 OS Macro / Sigma 24-105 f4 Art / Tamron 70-200 2.8 Di VC / Sigma 150-600 "S"

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
huntersdad
Goldmember
4,655 posts
Likes: 232
Joined Nov 2008
     
Mar 05, 2015 13:15 |  #2045

ptcanon3ti wrote in post #17461941 (external link)
I still think canon out thunk themselves and over complicated the focus system needlessly. Put the 1Dx or even the 5D3 focus system in it and be done. Then reap the even greater rewards....I'd have one. :)

1Dx - yes.

5d3 - no.


Facebook (external link)

http://WWW.BLENDEDLIGH​TPHOTOGRAPHY.COM (external link)
1DxII x 2 / 24-70L II / 70-200L II / 85 1.4L / 300 II / AD600Pros

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ptcanon3ti
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
8,391 posts
Gallery: 442 photos
Best ofs: 5
Likes: 6488
Joined Sep 2012
Location: NJ
     
Mar 05, 2015 14:33 |  #2046

huntersdad wrote in post #17462003 (external link)
1Dx - yes.

5d3 - no.


Ok. :) I have no frame of reference regarding the 5D3. Just all the peeps who extol the virtues there of.


Paul
https://www.flickr.com​/photos/petshots/ (external link)
Body - Nikon D750
Lenses - Nikon 20 f1.8 / Nikon 16-35 f4 / Sigma 105 OS Macro / Sigma 24-105 f4 Art / Tamron 70-200 2.8 Di VC / Sigma 150-600 "S"

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gschlact
Senior Member
1,318 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 487
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Chicago 'burbs
     
Mar 05, 2015 17:12 |  #2047

Markd102 wrote in post #17459169 (external link)
I still can't use my 70-200 f2.8L IS II wide open.
at f4 I get sharp images. But at f2.8 they're quite soft.
With the football season coming up (less light), I need to get this sorted.
Any ideas?

Not much info to go on. Examples would help. The 2.8 will depend more on MFA, was this done? Don't focus recompense when testing. Also, not know what your camera was prior, shutter speed might be an issue?




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gschlact
Senior Member
1,318 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 487
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Chicago 'burbs
     
Mar 05, 2015 17:19 |  #2048

rejay14 wrote in post #17459432 (external link)
I received a loaner 7D2 and 70-200 2.8 IS II late this afternoon. The pictures are amazingly sharp, sharper than I've seen on the body yet.

Unless: you put the AF into Servo and shoot a stationary object. I tried the same 3 shots, on a rock on my end table.

7DII: Single Shot: sharp, AI Focus: sharp, AI Servo: fuzzy
5D3: Single Shot: sharp, AI Focus: Sharp, AI Servo: sharp

The flaw is perhaps the "advanced" AF unit gets fooled if pointed at a stationary object in AI Servo? If someone else can try this out too and let us know the results, that'd be awesome.

I'm behind on reading, but I am thinking there might be a sensitivity of one of the case subsettings for ai servo with stationary objects. From memory, I think Pondraider might have +1 for acceleration deccel when he was shooting the still Fox and deer. First of course you are not at the edge of min focus distance to rock, and also maybe try setting (I can't remember the proper name) but the Can't Focus/not achieved setting to Search. I assume you use spot focus?

Obviously, it shouldn't happen and should be fixable with one of the settings since one shot is sharp.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gschlact
Senior Member
1,318 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 487
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Chicago 'burbs
Post edited over 4 years ago by gschlact.
     
Mar 05, 2015 17:33 |  #2049

huntersdad wrote in post #17460011 (external link)
.

. As confirmed by Canon, the underlying algorithms in the cases are different, even though they have the same user adjustable settings. The 1Dx seems "simpler" (I use this term loosely) and more accurate, while the 7d2 seems to have so much going on, it appears a touch slower but no less accurate if you give it time to work.

HD,
We all wanted to know the answer to this question. I do not agree that is was ever definitively answered by Canon. Different reps, techs, and manuals contradict each other.

I a, of the opinion that they are just setting place holders to feed a common algorithm. The advanced Af manual seemed to imply this clearly. No I am not positive but really feel it is most plausible. .:twisted:




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
rejay14
Goldmember
Avatar
1,052 posts
Gallery: 42 photos
Likes: 569
Joined Mar 2009
Location: St. Catharines, Ontario
     
Mar 05, 2015 18:37 |  #2050

gschlact wrote in post #17462323 (external link)
I'm behind on reading, but I am thinking there might be a sensitivity of one of the case subsettings for ai servo with stationary objects. From memory, I think Pondraider might have +1 for acceleration deccel when he was shooting the still Fox and deer. First of course you are not at the edge of min focus distance to rock, and also maybe try setting (I can't remember the proper name) but the Can't Focus/not achieved setting to Search. I assume you use spot focus?

Obviously, it shouldn't happen and should be fixable with one of the settings since one shot is sharp.

Correct with the spot focus. It was case 1, all default. Lens drive when AF impossible: on. 1st and 2nd priority: focus.


1DX Mark II, 5D Mark IV, 40D,Rebel XT :lol:, 70-200L 2.8 IS II, 100-400L IS II,24-105 II L, 100mmL 2.8 IS, 16-35L 2.8 II, 24-70 2.8L II, Sigma 50mm 1.4 Art, Sekonic 758DR, Pixma 9500 II, Pixma 9000 II, Think Tank Airport Accelerator v2.0, Canon 600EX-RT x 5, Profoto B1 x 4 with too many modifiers http:// …www.PrestigePhotoPro.c​om (external link) Portfolio (external link)
Concert Photography (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Submariner
Goldmember
Avatar
3,028 posts
Likes: 47
Joined May 2012
Location: London
     
Mar 05, 2015 18:49 |  #2051

huntersdad wrote in post #17462003 (external link)
1Dx - yes.

5d3 - no.

Whats wrong with the 5D3 AF system, ?
At least One doesnt see page after page of unhappy 5D3 users , who cant focus on the subject.

Interested to know your reasoning


Canon EOS 5DS R, Canon EF 70-200 F2.8 L Mk II IS USM, Canon EF 70-300 F4-5.6 L IS USM, EF 40mm F2.8 STM , RC6 Remote. Canon STE-3 Radio Flash Controller, Canon 600 EX RT x4 , YN 560 MkII x2 ; Bowens GM500PRO x4 , Bowens Remote Control. Bowens Pulsar TX, RX Radio Transmitter and Reciever Cards. Bowens Constant 530 Streamlights 600w x 4 Sold EOS 5D Mk III, 7D, EF 50mm F1.8, 430 EX Mk II, Bowens GM500Rs x4

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
huntersdad
Goldmember
4,655 posts
Likes: 232
Joined Nov 2008
     
Mar 05, 2015 20:14 |  #2052

Submariner wrote in post #17462425 (external link)
Whats wrong with the 5D3 AF system, ?
At least One doesnt see page after page of unhappy 5D3 users , who cant focus on the subject.

Interested to know your reasoning

Never cared for it with moving subjects and big teles. Just my opinion.


Facebook (external link)

http://WWW.BLENDEDLIGH​TPHOTOGRAPHY.COM (external link)
1DxII x 2 / 24-70L II / 70-200L II / 85 1.4L / 300 II / AD600Pros

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
RodS57
Senior Member
915 posts
Gallery: 30 photos
Likes: 811
Joined Jun 2014
     
Mar 05, 2015 20:14 |  #2053

Posted the following to the wrong thread again so reposting here

Me again.
First, this maybe the stupid question of the day and someone might tell me to RTFineM but here goes

I have the camera set to center point only but shots taken in live view show more than one active point. Do I need to set the focus point again in live view?

I received a response from canon requesting pictures but I usually delete them. This was a big mistake on my part as I deleted the consecutive shots with the largest range of differences with regards to focus consistency. I did send pictures from the tamron and now they are requesting pictures from a canon lens - three objects in the usual staggered pattern.

I set my cereal boxes with the farthest on the left and closest on the right. They have requested the reverse. Maybe I have a left handed camera :lol: They want the objects to fill as much of the frame as possible with no specification for distance??? That kills the 50x rule.

Rod


>>> Pictures? What pictures? <<<<

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
huntersdad
Goldmember
4,655 posts
Likes: 232
Joined Nov 2008
     
Mar 05, 2015 20:34 |  #2054

RodS57 wrote in post #17462533 (external link)
Posted the following to the wrong thread again so reposting here

Me again.
First, this maybe the stupid question of the day and someone might tell me to RTFineM but here goes

I have the camera set to center point only but shots taken in live view show more than one active point. Do I need to set the focus point again in live view?

I received a response from canon requesting pictures but I usually delete them. This was a big mistake on my part as I deleted the consecutive shots with the largest range of differences with regards to focus consistency. I did send pictures from the tamron and now they are requesting pictures from a canon lens - three objects in the usual staggered pattern.

I set my cereal boxes with the farthest on the left and closest on the right. They have requested the reverse. Maybe I have a left handed camera :lol: They want the objects to fill as much of the frame as possible with no specification for distance??? That kills the 50x rule.

Rod

You need to change the live view AF so you get only one point. And I'd ask why they want the boxes to fill the frame versus their own rule of 50x FL. I have no idea why the box orientation would matter unless they are checking something else.


Facebook (external link)

http://WWW.BLENDEDLIGH​TPHOTOGRAPHY.COM (external link)
1DxII x 2 / 24-70L II / 70-200L II / 85 1.4L / 300 II / AD600Pros

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
huntersdad
Goldmember
4,655 posts
Likes: 232
Joined Nov 2008
     
Mar 05, 2015 20:40 |  #2055

gschlact wrote in post #17462341 (external link)
HD,
We all wanted to know the answer to this question. I do not agree that is was ever definitively answered by Canon. Different reps, techs, and manuals contradict each other.

I a, of the opinion that they are just setting place holders to feed a common algorithm. The advanced Af manual seemed to imply this clearly. No I am not positive but really feel it is most plausible. .:twisted:

It was discussed over on FM as being answered rather authoritatively by Chuck Westfall, I believe. I have confirmed the same personally with CPS.

It only makes sense that the underlying drivers are different. If they weren't, why have cases at all? You'd need one screen for adjusting any of the 3 parameters. A look at the cases and their bias towards certain actions and movements make it pretty clear they are not the same.


Facebook (external link)

http://WWW.BLENDEDLIGH​TPHOTOGRAPHY.COM (external link)
1DxII x 2 / 24-70L II / 70-200L II / 85 1.4L / 300 II / AD600Pros

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

1,411,055 views & 2,732 likes for this thread
7D Mark II - Focus Discussions
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is nader23
970 guests, 206 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.