7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

huntersdad wrote in post #17468076
I don't know that you are throwing good money after bad money by sending it in. Heck, it's under warranty. When I sent in pictures, the CPS rep looked them over and made his opinion, then shared them with a group, who made an opinion. Without knowing the other's opinions, they all came back the exact same - something wrong. If you think something is wrong, send it in or exchange it.

Not sure where you are located, but I'll be glad to take a look at it with my lenses and give you my opinion.

I am in the middle of nowhere, Google labrador city. About 12 hours drive to the nearest city.

I read the article on focus adjustment the canon customer service agent sent. It doesn't go into great detail but does suggest that MFA may not be reliable on third party lenses. Right now the plan is to reset the camera back to factory just in case I have changed something that is causing the problems; concentrate on using the canon lenses and see if I can get any shots that really prove there is a problem. Twice now I've seen adjacent shots that were wildly different. The first time with the tamron and all were soft except one in the middle of a burst with MFA off that was very sharp and the second time while doing the focus test shots for canon where all were quite soft except for one that was completely out of focus. I need to carefully document this random error in pictures. As all lenses work on my T3i I do not think it is a lens malfunction issue.

If I can get it to work with my canon lenses then I will have to re-evaluate the situation. My opinion isn't cast in stone yet but I am coming to the conclusion there is something wrong inside the camera.

What would I use to clean the electrical body / lens contacts?


Rod

An eraser. Just don't get any in the camera.

Good thought on the reset and start over. Take your time and do the testing. It should be pretty easy to see focusing issues if there are any.

So Im on my 3rd Body. Just picked up yesterday. Doing my Dottune and test shots. Found this very interesting and for what ever its worth this is what I discovered that I had not really looked at before because I was shooting in RAW.

Today I was shooting everything in Jpeg and noticed straight out of the box the camera is set to Standard Picture Style which applies Sharpness by 3. Pictures looked pretty darn good. I then set to Neutral Picture Style which is how images would come out when shooting in RAW and that is where I discovered the softness/OOF I was seeing in all my images on the other two bodies.
Not sure if this will be of any help to anyone else, but it definitely solved all of my issues and certainly learned a lot throughout this whole ordeal.

I now have all my lenses MFA'ed, which I never knew how to do before and am getting good results again.

I guess with this 7D Body when shooting in raw you will definitely have to apply a lot more sharpness than other bodies at least to my findings.

Good Luck to others, so glad I finally found my keeper

RodS57 wrote in post #17468822
I am in the middle of nowhere, Google labrador city. About 12 hours drive to the nearest city.

I read the article on focus adjustment the canon customer service agent sent. It doesn't go into great detail but does suggest that MFA may not be reliable on third party lenses. Right now the plan is to reset the camera back to factory just in case I have changed something that is causing the problems; concentrate on using the canon lenses and see if I can get any shots that really prove there is a problem. Twice now I've seen adjacent shots that were wildly different. The first time with the tamron and all were soft except one in the middle of a burst with MFA off that was very sharp and the second time while doing the focus test shots for canon where all were quite soft except for one that was completely out of focus. I need to carefully document this random error in pictures. As all lenses work on my T3i I do not think it is a lens malfunction issue.

If I can get it to work with my canon lenses then I will have to re-evaluate the situation. My opinion isn't cast in stone yet but I am coming to the conclusion there is something wrong inside the camera.

What would I use to clean the electrical body / lens contacts?

Rod

one suggestion to remember ... take a shot using Live View AF (contrast) so that you can set your expectation for the sharpest that the lens can take on the camera and compare to your normal Phase Detect AF. Make sure you have plenty of light and shutter speed.

Well done, have fun

britt777 wrote in post #17468872
So Im on my 3rd Body. Just picked up yesterday. Doing my Dottune and test shots. Found this very interesting and for what ever its worth this is what I discovered that I had not really looked at before because I was shooting in RAW.

Today I was shooting everything in Jpeg and noticed straight out of the box the camera is set to Standard Picture Style which applies Sharpness by 3. Pictures looked pretty darn good. I then set to Neutral Picture Style which is how images would come out when shooting in RAW and that is where I discovered the softness/OOF I was seeing in all my images on the other two bodies.
Not sure if this will be of any help to anyone else, but it definitely solved all of my issues and certainly learned a lot throughout this whole ordeal.

I now have all my lenses MFA'ed, which I never knew how to do before and am getting good results again.

I guess with this 7D Body when shooting in raw you will definitely have to apply a lot more sharpness than other bodies at least to my findings.

Good Luck to others, so glad I finally found my keeper

Actually, I think you'll find this true of all cameras. Since RAW images have no sharpening applied and the standard presets in cameras do apply sharpening to JPG, images will be sharper SOOC with JPG than with RAW (unless you turn down the sharpening in JPG.)

gschlact wrote in post #17469001
one suggestion to remember ... take a shot using Live View AF (contrast) so that you can set your expectation for the sharpest that the lens can take on the camera and compare to your normal Phase Detect AF. Make sure you have plenty of light and shutter speed.

Re: live view - does the exif data list that mode. I tried it this evening but don't know for sure with which shots

This confusing saga continues. I received what has to be called a polite email from canon customer service today. They gave me the address for the service center as well as letting me know if no problems were found they would return the camera so I could run tests again. I advised I would try a few more things and try to be more diligent with regards to documenting any problems before resorting to sending the camera in.

I did the clear all settings aka reset to factory defaults. Went out with the 70-300L attached. A high percentage of shots are quit acceptable even when viewed at 100%. I did get my average of soft shots due to user error. Subject matter wasn't the best and it was overcast but it is what it is. Tried one shot focus, ai servo in low and high speed. Also tried panning shots of vehicles passing by at about 60 km/h (about 40 mph for those in the US ). Most were acceptable given my typical success rate with any camera.

As far as I can remember the only settings I had previously changed on the camera were: live view off, flash off, slow speed continuous set to 5, 1st and 2nd shot priority set to focus, case 2 for ai servo, and of course the MFA stuff. I don't see anything earth shattering there.

So this raises some questions:
1) did the factory reset fix something that was stuck as in a computer reboot.
2) were the persistent soft focus issues lens related. I intend to keep the canon on there for a while for some real shooting before taking the chance on the tamron
3) were the two oddball shots, one really sharp and one really out of focus, an anomaly

Going to take a while before I will feel comfortable with this camera.

Rod

Rod that is interesting. Guess it could be the reset. I have all the same settings you have with the exception of 2: Live View off (which I actually assume means you weren't in LV) and Case 2. The interesting part is that Case 2 is where I struggled so much in testing the camera that I have gone away from it. However, it is the case I use with my 1Dx with outstanding results.

Glad it seems to be working.

Brittany, glad your issue is resolved now also.

Brittany, glad your issue is resolved now also.[/QUOTE]

Thank you and thank you for your help with MFA

magicmikey wrote in post #17469018
Actually, I think you'll find this true of all cameras. Since RAW images have no sharpening applied and the standard presets in cameras do apply sharpening to JPG, images will be sharper SOOC with JPG than with RAW (unless you turn down the sharpening in JPG.)

I was aware that RAW had no sharpening, but since I alway shoot in RAW I wasn't thinking about jpeg applying sharpening. Jpeg has picture styles with no sharpening as well. I was just glad I put 2&2 together....Duh on my part I know, but hey I got it figured out

Still finding pictures to be a lot softer wide open @ 2.8 & 4

huntersdad wrote in post #17468071
Personal opinions on Chuck's thoughts:

I don't think #1 answers the question we all have. I agree that the CASE NUMBERS are different presets of the values that are fed to the underlying algorithm. The question is: Do all the cases have the same underlying algorithm? It doesn't make sense to me that you have 6 different cases, designed to handle 6 completely different types and directions of movement, all acting completely different by moving a value to the left or the right. But maybe I'm in the minority in this thought.

I can understand #2, bu the word "slightly" should be omitted. The cases don't act the same.

Completely agree with number #3.

Very good reference materials in #4. If you haven't read them, shame on you.

#5 is personal choice. Like you, mine stays in Servo unless I am shooting in truly low light. In that situation, I find One Shot to focus more accurately. But that is rare for me.

I know for a fact that they do not have the same underlying algorithms. The question was asked to Rudi Winston, the gentleman who does Canon's video's on how to.

Bianchi wrote in post #17469776
I know for a fact that they do not have the same underlying algorithms. The question was asked to Rudi Winston, the gentleman who does Canon's video's on how to.

I am sure Rudy is knowledgable. However, I personally would rely on Chucks tight connection with R&D as the source of truth. So, while Rudd provided his answer, my opinion is that Chuck's is more reliable (since they contradict each other according to you).

gschlact wrote in post #17469804
I am sure Rudy is knowledgable. However, I personally would rely on Chucks tight connection with R&D as the source of truth. So, while Rudd provided his answer, my opinion is that Chuck's is more reliable (since they contradict each other according to you).

This is a question and answer from one of the members here to Rudy


Methodical21 month ago (edited)

"Rudy, Question. Hopefully you are reading this.

Does anything else distinguish the six AF cases from each other, besides the three adjustable tracking parameter settings under each Case?

In other words, if I manually adjusted the three parameters under Case 1 to have the exact same values as the default settings under Case 6, would Cases 1 and 6 then perform exactly the same? Or would there still be some behavioral difference between the two, governed by internal parameters that are not adjustable by the user? Basically, are the 6 cases just 6 different presets for different action type shots to make things easier for some shooters or does each AF case function differently via some special AF algorithm? This question has surfaced on several forums and there are many interpretations.

Thanks

Reply

CanonUSA

1 month ago

Hi Methodical2,

Great question. The AF Case do have built-in parameters that are not user modifiable. As an example, Case 1 might jump to a subject that appears suddenly in the image and crosses and active AF point, Case 2 will try to ignore it. Case 3 will try to lock on and track a new subject that appears in front of the first target. These differences are explained in the EOS 7D Mark II AF-Setting Guidebook at http://downloads.canon​.com …_AF_guide_CUSA_​9-2014.pdf and in the full Instruction Manual. We hope you find this helpful.

Reply

· Methodical2

1 month ago (edited)

+CanonUSA Just to be clear. If I adjust Case 1 to the same settings as say Case 3 there are still non user modifiable AF algorithm going on behind the scene that makes the two AF cases different no matter the settings? Is this correct?

Thanks

Reply

CanonUSA

1 month ago

+Methodical2 Hello Methodical2,
That is correct, there are background settings in each case that cannot be modified. We hope this helps.

Reply

Methodical2

1 month ago

+CanonUSA Yes that helps tremendously

You posted
"1. Definitively, the Case numbers in the AF Configuration Tool are simply a convenient preset of the values fed to the underlying algorithm. The different Cases (numbers) simply represent a different combination of setting values!"

Perhaps you may be interpreting this incorrectly

Bianchi wrote in post #17469844
This is a question and answer from one of the members here to Rudy

Methodical21 month ago (edited)

"Rudy, Question. Hopefully you are reading this.

Does anything else distinguish the six AF cases from each other, besides the three adjustable tracking parameter settings under each Case?

In other words, if I manually adjusted the three parameters under Case 1 to have the exact same values as the default settings under Case 6, would Cases 1 and 6 then perform exactly the same? Or would there still be some behavioral difference between the two, governed by internal parameters that are not adjustable by the user? Basically, are the 6 cases just 6 different presets for different action type shots to make things easier for some shooters or does each AF case function differently via some special AF algorithm? This question has surfaced on several forums and there are many interpretations.

Thanks

Reply

CanonUSA

1 month ago

Hi Methodical2,

Great question. The AF Case do have built-in parameters that are not user modifiable. As an example, Case 1 might jump to a subject that appears suddenly in the image and crosses and active AF point, Case 2 will try to ignore it. Case 3 will try to lock on and track a new subject that appears in front of the first target. These differences are explained in the EOS 7D Mark II AF-Setting Guidebook at http://downloads.canon​.com …_AF_guide_CUSA_​9-2014.pdf and in the full Instruction Manual. We hope you find this helpful.

Reply

· Methodical2

1 month ago (edited)

+CanonUSA Just to be clear. If I adjust Case 1 to the same settings as say Case 3 there are still non user modifiable AF algorithm going on behind the scene that makes the two AF cases different no matter the settings? Is this correct?

Thanks

Reply

CanonUSA

1 month ago

+Methodical2 Hello Methodical2,
That is correct, there are background settings in each case that cannot be modified. We hope this helps.

Reply

Methodical2

1 month ago

+CanonUSA Yes that helps tremendously

You posted
"1. Definitively, the Case numbers in the AF Configuration Tool are simply a convenient preset of the values fed to the underlying algorithm. The different Cases (numbers) simply represent a different combination of setting values!"

Perhaps you may be interpreting this incorrectly

This is what I remembered reading!! Basically, he's saying that the user programmable values can be changed and affect how the underlying algorithms run. But, the underlying algorithms are trying to do separate and distinct things within the cases and, therefore, act different even if the user values are the exact same.

huntersdad wrote in post #17470030
This is what I remembered reading!! Basically, he's saying that the user programmable values can be changed and affect how the underlying algorithms run. But, the underlying algorithms are trying to do separate and distinct things within the cases and, therefore, act different even if the user values are the exact same.

I asked the exact same questions. His Chuck's answer did not indicate any reason to think there were further differences between the cases besides the user adjusted parameter values for a given camera. I'll ask him to review your post / exchange. It would benefit the community to reconcile the different Canon responses. As customers, we certainly can't.