7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

RodS57 wrote in post #17478967
The numbers I posted yesterday are from this thread, namely 'focus issues' so there is already a large bias towards problem cameras. I was just curious what the numbers were.

As for canon it becomes a matter of scale. Say nothing and lose a few sales or go public and potentially lose hundreds of sales.

Rod

RodS57 wrote in post #17478245
At the risk of being shot by the canon fanboys I went back to the first page in this thread and have tried to catalog what is going on. I've managed to get as far as the end of December after 89 pages. If the camera was returned to the place of purchase it is deemed bad. If sent to canon for repair then returned apparently working it is good and bad. If comments indicate no problems then it is counted as good. There are a lot of posts with helpful suggestions etc that don't indicate even if the poster has the 7D2 camera. Entries like this were ignored for counting purposes. Not scientific but I'd like to think not biased one way or the other either. The numbers represent this thread only. Some here may be suprised.

Counted as good = 24
Counted as bad = 34

It is more than likely that this ratio has moved to good side by now. After all this is only up to the end of December and very few people here knew how to use the camera at that point in time or at least that is what some would have us believe. My own camera is not in the count as my wtf moment wasn't until mid February.

Rod

I'm not convinced one should read much into the numbers. People with an issue are far more likely to say anything than those that don't have a problem.

Before purchasing my 7d2 I did a Google search on this subject and found nothing at that time, mid December, outside of this thread indicating a focus problem. A quick glance on the Amazon reviews doesn't seem to suggest an issue, but I only glanced at a couple of pages.

Mine seems to work well. I note that people will sometimes go through several lenses to get the sharpest and I wonder if some of that is happening here too.

Tonight's Senior Night - My daughter.
7d2 w/ 70-200

1.

Capn Jack wrote in post #17479623
I'm not convinced one should read much into the numbers. People with an issue are far more likely to say anything than those that don't have a problem.

Before purchasing my 7d2 I did a Google search on this subject and found nothing at that time, mid December, outside of this thread indicating a focus problem. A quick glance on the Amazon reviews doesn't seem to suggest an issue, but I only glanced at a couple of pages.

Mine seems to work well. I note that people will sometimes go through several lenses to get the sharpest and I wonder if some of that is happening here too.

People proudly posting pics from their new camera, represent people saying they are not having a problem. And there usually seems to be plenty of those type of reports. You posted that yours seems to be working well.

People unhappy with a product are roughly 10x more vocal than those that are happy. This is why one such customer service standard states that for every 1 complaint negates 10 positive views. Therefore the number of happy people heavily outweigh those that are having issues... and that must be taken in consideration when deciding on a purchase and reading reviews.

It is good to see those that have no issues speak up as well, because it helps equalize the issue a bit more for a more informed decision by others.

Positive to negative feedback ratios vary depending on the data source. Vendor website reviews for example are drastically more positive than the reports here on POTN.

I returned two 7D2's and reported it here, but did not submit a negative review to the vendor website. I personally know someone who returned two 7D2's and they did not report it on the vendor website or here on POTN.

No one but Canon knows the true number of problem units.

In general the 70D, 7D and 7D II tend to have the most AF issues/complaints. It has to do with a combination of user error and some with defective AF system. I think most of the time it does have to do with a defective AF system but some people blame themselves because they see some people get shunned online for complaining. If the AF doesn't perform correctly in One Shot Mode, it is most likely the AF system that is defective. It doesn't take much technique to get a sharp shot in One Shot Mode AF on a static subject assuming you have your shutter speed set reasonably. If One Shot Mode AF doesn't work correctly, then Ai Servo will almost be impossible to work correctly also.

Most other cameras just work right out of the box. I have XSi, 60D, & 5D III. The keeper rate for all of them is greater than 95%. I had two 7D's and the keeper rate was below 40%. I was apalled that my XSi AF more accurately than my 7D's. Even though there are a lot of complaints on the 7D II, I think I'm going to rent one to see if the AF is a dud like the 7D.

garycoleman wrote in post #17482429
In general the 70D, 7D and 7D II tend to have the most AF issues/complaints. It has to do with a combination of user error and some with defective AF system. I think most of the time it does have to do with a defective AF system but some people blame themselves because they see some people get shunned online for complaining. If the AF doesn't perform correctly in One Shot Mode, it is most likely the AF system that is defective. It doesn't take much technique to get a sharp shot in One Shot Mode AF on a static subject assuming you have your shutter speed set reasonably. If One Shot Mode AF doesn't work correctly, then Ai Servo will almost be impossible to work correctly also.

Most other cameras just work right out of the box. I have XSi, 60D, & 5D III. The keeper rate for all of them is greater than 95%. I had two 7D's and the keeper rate was below 40%. I was apalled that my XSi AF more accurately than my 7D's. Even though there are a lot of complaints on the 7D II, I think I'm going to rent one to see if the AF is a dud like the 7D.

Agreed.

I don't remember seeing lots of complaints about the 5D3 AF. And I always found it interesting that I don't remember seeing many complaints about the 60D AF. I used a 60D along with my original 7D for a year, and the 60D performed very well, despite having a less sophisticated AF system.

Kickflipkid687 wrote in post #17475228
But, I'm using Canon glass again, instead of the Tamron, which is probably a big part of it.

The Tamron 150-600 has been "ok", but not near the Canon in terms of AF speed/accuracy. I think the 7D II likes Canon lenses for AI Servo imo.


When I say excellent, it really was. I had a great time, and it was nice to have things just "work" again.

I figured this out ages ago, on my 550D/T2i. When it comes to servo AF tracking, my Canon EF S 55-250 II was miles better than my Tamron SP AF 70-300 VC. I tested it many times, on the same day, same subjects, back to back, & the Canon was easily better. For tracking moving subjects, I'd stick to Canon lenses personally. One shot, no real issues. tracking, different story. Just how it worked for me anyway.

It is difficult to get a sense of the numbers, because the people who are dissatisfied with their cameras are more likely to post in a forum like this.

There will always be some errors in any manufacturing process. Having said that, the issue that raised a big red flag for me, are the number of experienced photographers on here who needed 3 or 4 bodies before they found one they were happy with. That suggests to me that the % of bodies with problems is not insignificant. If just 1% were bad, the odds of getting 3 bad copies would be 1 in 1,000,000.

Picture Styltes and RAW:

I always shot in RAW. So what doese the pictureSytley do with the RAW File? I am using Ligthroom, an i could not see any difference betwenn Style "Normal" or "neutral" in Ligthroom
At the camera display there is a significant differenz because here the internal JPG from teh RAW file was displayed not the RAW File itself.

I still have problems with the softness in AI Servo

ukfalc wrote in post #17483460
It is difficult to get a sense of the numbers, because the people who are dissatisfied with their cameras are more likely to post in a forum like this.

There will always be some errors in any manufacturing process. Having said that, the issue that raised a big red flag for me, are the number of experienced photographers on here who needed 3 or 4 bodies before they found one they were happy with. That suggests to me that the % of bodies with problems is not insignificant. If just 1% were bad, the odds of getting 3 bad copies would be 1 in 1,000,000.

Personally, I think further thought and detail is necessary...
Discount the complaints of the 7dii caused by either (a) owner not having done mfa OR (b) non-Canon lens used. This would greatly diminish the count gotten of "bad" on this forum and others. Even from some experience photos who didn't believe mfa was needed nor performed citing other owned cameras with same lenses as unnecessary and returned their body. I am not disputing their opinion, just that if mfa gets reliable Af, it shouldn't count as a bad body. .

Also, if there were that many returned camera, would we begin to see refurbished showing up? Doing some silly math estimates. (feel free to chime in)...
Say Canon owns 40% global dslr sales, with 16M dslr sold per year. (http://petapixel.com …sights-camera-sales-data/). Let's assume 80% of Canon dslr sold are below xxD models. This leaves 40% x (100%-80%) x 16M remaining units, =1.2Munits/yr or xxD and above. Now let's assume 80% are below the 5d family of which 20% are 7d and not xxD, so 1.2M x (100%-80%) x 20% = 48kunits/yr of 7d's, or 4k per month. So 4 months of shipping is 16kunits. At even 1% return. Rate there would be 160 cameras waiting for refurbished and resale. So...

KatManDEW wrote in post #17482998
Agreed.

I don't remember seeing lots of complaints about the 5D3 AF. And I always found it interesting that I don't remember seeing many complaints about the 60D AF. I used a 60D along with my original 7D for a year, and the 60D performed very well, despite having a less sophisticated AF system.

Yep my 60D AF was great. It just works right out of the box. Even though it doesn't have MFA it just works.

Tamron 70 to 300 on my 60d no problem but when i put it on the 7dm2 everything at 300 was soft. mfa was the cure for that problem and i have not seen it ( soft or blurry pictures ) in any of my canon lens or my sigma 150 to 500.

ukfalc wrote in post #17483460
It is difficult to get a sense of the numbers, because the people who are dissatisfied with their cameras are more likely to post in a forum like this.

There will always be some errors in any manufacturing process. Having said that, the issue that raised a big red flag for me, are the number of experienced photographers on here who needed 3 or 4 bodies before they found one they were happy with. That suggests to me that the % of bodies with problems is not insignificant. If just 1% were bad, the odds of getting 3 bad copies would be 1 in 1,000,000.

That's my thought entirely and it's what is putting me off buying this camera, but it's very difficult to get a real feel for the situation. A poll I opened here is so far suggesting that less than a quarter of voters have had a faulty camera, but the sample is too small to be meaningful. If you haven't voted, please do.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I'm not sure we can read much in to the lack of refurbished copies available. TBH I don't know what cannon and its authorised dealers do with returned lens and bodies. Do they refurbish everything, or strip them down for parts and where do they sell refurbished gear off? There is only a tiny amount of refurbished gear of any kind available on their website or Ebay store. I am speculating, but I wouldn't be surprised if they keep refurbished sales to a minimum, to avoid eating in to their sales of brand new gear.

By your numbers, a 1% return rate would be about 160 units, but this thread alone seems to refer to 35+ returns - only a tiny % of camera buyers are members here. This forum has 380,000 members, which is 2.5% of annual DSLR sales.

I'm torn on the 7d II. I mainly photograph birds in flight and really want/need to upgrade my slow current body. On paper the 7d II perfectly fits my needs, but I can't convince myself to take the risk in the light of the AF issues/inconsistencies on this thread.