7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

magura wrote in post #17483470
Picture Styltes and RAW:

I always shot in RAW. So what doese the pictureSytley do with the RAW File? I am using Ligthroom, an i could not see any difference betwenn Style "Normal" or "neutral" in Ligthroom
At the camera display there is a significant differenz because here the internal JPG from teh RAW file was displayed not the RAW File itself.

I still have problems with the softness in AI Servo

Lightroom does nothing with picture styles (at least it didn;t in the years I still messed with it?)

However, if you use Canon DPP for RAW files you can apply ANY of the Canon picture styles to the RAW file after the fact. If you have one set in camera, it will be the "default" in DPP, but since RAW files are RAW files and are never actually altered as RAW files, the "style" is only applied to the output file (jpeg, Tiff etc)

Picture Styles is an in camera recipe that is used to cook your in camera jpeg, or it's a DPP recipe to create those jpegs from your RAW file on your PC. They do not effect the actual RAW file, they are just recipes that get written into the file as info for the DPP. Most (all) 3rd party RAW apps ignore the info, or at least only do a poor job of interpreting it.

ukfalc wrote in post #17484309
That's an interesting way of looking at it. I'm not sure we can read much in to the lack of refurbished copies available. TBH I don't know what cannon and its authorised dealers do with returned lens and bodies. Do they refurbish everything, or strip them down for parts and where do they sell refurbished gear off? There is only a tiny amount of refurbished gear of any kind available on their website or Ebay store. I am speculating, but I wouldn't be surprised if they keep refurbished sales to a minimum, to avoid eating in to their sales of brand new gear.

By your numbers, a 1% return rate would be about 160 units, but this thread alone seems to refer to 35+ returns - only a tiny % of camera buyers are members here. This forum has 380,000 members, which is 2.5% of annual DSLR sales.

I'm torn on the 7d II. I mainly photograph birds in flight and really want/need to upgrade my slow current body. On paper the 7d II perfectly fits my needs, but I can't convince myself to take the risk in the light of the AF issues/inconsistencies on this thread.

The specs on paper are what steered me to this camera. Right now I'd have to say wherever you buy check the return policy first to be sure you have time to check it out without being stuck with it. A local store that you can drive to would be best.

Rod

I had what I was certain was a bad copy from Newegg. Sharp in single shot, blurry in AI Servo (whether the subject was moving or not). Got an RMA and returned it. Second version came yesterday. Did some test shots today and they were night and day in AI Servo. This one is a keeper. The difference was immediately noticeable. Anyone who thinks this is a skill issue is crazy.

RodS57 wrote in post #17484571
The specs on paper are what steered me to this camera. Right now I'd have to say wherever you buy check the return policy first to be sure you have time to check it out without being stuck with it. A local store that you can drive to would be best.

Rod

Someone told me that Crutchfield has a 60 day return policy. That was after my return experiences, so I never checked to verify that. I would definitely help to have a longer return period, so you have time to get out and put the camera thru it's paces, and exhaust all options. The weather in my area was a big problem for testing the camera. It's spring now, and a couple potential new 7D2 owners that I know have been waiting for better weather before they take their chances... On one hand, I wish I had done that. But on the other hand, I have that out of the way now, and don't have to waste time testing and returning now that good photo weather is here.

Kcussbuc wrote in post #17484579
I had what I was certain was a bad copy from Newegg. Sharp in single shot, blurry in AI Servo (whether the subject was moving or not). Got an RMA and returned it. Second version came yesterday. Did some test shots today and they were night and day in AI Servo. This one is a keeper. The difference was immediately noticeable. Anyone who thinks this is a skill issue is crazy.

That's good news. And yes, a good copy shouldn't require herculean efforts to get sharp shots. If you get one and have significant problems with it, and you are an experienced user, my opinion is that there's a pretty good chance that you got a dud.

Kcussbuc wrote in post #17484579
I had what I was certain was a bad copy from Newegg. Sharp in single shot, blurry in AI Servo (whether the subject was moving or not). Got an RMA and returned it. Second version came yesterday. Did some test shots today and they were night and day in AI Servo. This one is a keeper. The difference was immediately noticeable. Anyone who thinks this is a skill issue is crazy.

CPS gave up on me and replaced my body. Just to recap:
Purchase #1: fuzzy
Loaner #1: fuzzy
Loaner #2: sharp
Purchase/Replacement #2: sharp!

I must make clear that this body needs high shutter speeds ( in my experience anyway). My 5D3 almost never misses. I can't seem to make the AF mess up! I'm glad I didn't give up on it. I hope to really work on the technique needed to make this body shine. (just in case some of the problem is me).

rejay14 wrote in post #17484666
CPS gave up on me and replaced my body. Just to recap:
Purchase #1: fuzzy
Loaner #1: fuzzy
Loaner #2: sharp
Purchase/Replacement #2: sharp!

I must make clear that this body needs high shutter speeds ( in my experience anyway). My 5D3 almost never misses. I can't seem to make the AF mess up! I'm glad I didn't give up on it. I hope to really work on the technique needed to make this body shine. (just in case some of the problem is me).

My 5D3 only misses when I obviously screwed up myself. I think I posted pics from my third 7D2 in this thread, where I got lots of nicely sharp shots with a tripod and gimbal head at 1/320 second and 800mm, at ISO's up to 2500. Gimbal head was not locked up, because I was chasing little birds darting around.

Haven't had much chance to shoot the third 7D2 hand held with a long lens, but with my 70-200 it worked as well as I expected shooting model airplanes indoors at 1/250 to 1/320 second hand held. Shot hockey with the 7D2 and 70-200 hand held four times now, and was very impressed with the results. Shutter speeds from 1/640 to 1/800.

huntersdad wrote in post #17478231
To be fair to them, I think there is a bit of user error out there - especially on the consumer end - and Canon's not going to take the blame. Hell, I don't blame them as I would guess the percentage is pretty low. Even among users on here, the percentage of good to bad cameras would be pretty low.

Personally, I think anyone who throw in the towel after one try wasn't really that interested in the camera to begin with or you would have simply exchanged it. For those that have stuck with it until they got a working body, we're all now pleased with our decision, even if it meant we had to deal with some headaches. I know it was worth it to me.

That's what I did, except I sent mine to Canon NJ (didn't play the lottery) just to have them check and inspect things and they found (confirmed) what I was seeing - front focused Adjustments were made and now it's doing it's thing. I am glad I hung in there because my 600II loves being connected to it.

I hope folks don't treat life situations like this; easily give up and throw in the towel because this is peanuts compared to some real life situations.

Just One Man's Opinion...Al

Hm. Well, I was having good luck with a Canon lens on the 7D II last weekend. But today results were pretty shotty.
I was shooting in partly cloudy skies, low ISO, High shutter speeds, but very inconsistent results. Even on static targets close by.

I tried shooting my buddies car license plate from 30-50ft away (at 500mm) ,and even in Live View, it was inconsistent.
The license plate was about 1/3-1/2 the frame. One image was pretty sharp, the next 2 were definitely outta focus.

Tried shooting maybe 30-50 frames of continuous snow geese flying and landing. Tried center point and center expanded, in Case 2, 5 and 6.
Tried using ITR and 65 point auto AF. Most shots were outta focus, no matter what mode/settings. The geese were about 30-100ft away depending on the shot.

Tried shooting at 500 F/4 then 5.6, didn't seem to matter. Tried to also turn on/off my AF Fine Tune, which seemed right on with my focus chart before. No luck.


Really not sure what to think anymore. If its still user error, or the camera or the conditions or what.
I know Phase Detect AF is generally not super accurate/consistent... but .... this just seems too inconsistent.

The above is the same as my current feelings about the 7Dii.

Some days it doesn't miss a beat and others couldn't hit a barn door. It's almost as if the camera either boots up ready for a good day or boots up ready to be a pig.

Frustrating doesn't come close.

Well, looking at my images on my computer more closely, they are not AS bad as I thought. Still some misses for no apparent reason.
But some were definitely user error/bad tracking on my part.

I'll see how it goes tomorrow.

Kickflipkid687 wrote in post #17495849
Hm. Well, I was having good luck with a Canon lens on the 7D II last weekend. But today results were pretty shotty.
I was shooting in partly cloudy skies, low ISO, High shutter speeds, but very inconsistent results. Even on static targets close by.

I tried shooting my buddies car license plate from 30-50ft away (at 500mm) ,and even in Live View, it was inconsistent.
The license plate was about 1/3-1/2 the frame. One image was pretty sharp, the next 2 were definitely outta focus.

Tried shooting maybe 30-50 frames of continuous snow geese flying and landing. Tried center point and center expanded, in Case 2, 5 and 6.
Tried using ITR and 65 point auto AF. Most shots were outta focus, no matter what mode/settings. The geese were about 30-100ft away depending on the shot.

Tried shooting at 500 F/4 then 5.6, didn't seem to matter. Tried to also turn on/off my AF Fine Tune, which seemed right on with my focus chart before. No luck.


Really not sure what to think anymore. If its still user error, or the camera or the conditions or what.
I know Phase Detect AF is generally not super accurate/consistent... but .... this just seems too inconsistent.

Just curious, with all of the not in focus problem, s you cited, where did the plane of focus actually fall if not on your intended target?

In some cases, I didn't see the plane of focus at all. Or nothing very obvious.

In the last images I took of the day, they are not as bad as I initially thought.

I'm also seeing some major heat distortion coming off the field. There was standing water/mud through most of the area, with no tree cover, and it was 65F.
So I suppose any lens/camera body will have poor/less then ideal results.

I remember during the summer on some really hot days, once it warmed up a bit, image quality drastically reduced.
That was with the Tamron 150-600 and my 60D. But I think it would be the same for most cameras...maybe...

Kickflipkid687 wrote in post #17496652
In some cases, I didn't see the plane of focus at all. Or nothing very obvious.

In the last images I took of the day, they are not as bad as I initially thought.

I'm also seeing some major heat distortion coming off the field. There was standing water/mud through most of the area, with no tree cover, and it was 65F.
So I suppose any lens/camera body will have poor/less then ideal results.

I remember during the summer on some really hot days, once it warmed up a bit, image quality drastically reduced.
That was with the Tamron 150-600 and my 60D. But I think it would be the same for most cameras...maybe...

I would exchange it again. It's not worth the aggravation of dealing with an unreliable AF system and try to place blame on yourself.

Kickflipkid687 wrote in post #17496652
In some cases, I didn't see the plane of focus at all. Or nothing very obvious.

In the last images I took of the day, they are not as bad as I initially thought.

I'm also seeing some major heat distortion coming off the field. There was standing water/mud through most of the area, with no tree cover, and it was 65F.
So I suppose any lens/camera body will have poor/less then ideal results.

I remember during the summer on some really hot days, once it warmed up a bit, image quality drastically reduced.
That was with the Tamron 150-600 and my 60D. But I think it would be the same for most cameras...maybe...

If you don't see any plane of focus, the most likely issue after establishing high enough shutter speed (which you did) is one of these:
1. Heat shimmer distortion when the ground heats up faster than the air, or next to a window or door with heat escaping.
2. Not letting IS / OS. Stabilize long enough
3. Shutter priority instead of focus priority

It sounds like you have already found the culprit as heat shimmer., and have had days of complete consistency. Doesn't sound like anything wrong with your specific camera.