7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

Ya I hear ya, I use all three regularly, but like I said most settings are not for everyone. Mostly I post an image to show my meaning.

Mod #2 and if you don't think this guy was moving lol well ,...give them a try. and its almost impossible to prefocus like on a branch or perch. but it is fun

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/t3PH​6e

wallstreetoneil wrote in post #17568260
For the small crazy little birds that are darty little things - it is truly a trade off of a large number of things but what I reduced it to was the following:
- you want to be zoomed is as much as possible to make them big but they move so fast that being at 400mm is impossible because they are in and out of the FOV so fast that it is impossible so for me around 250-300mm worked the best with the 100-400
- you have to track them coming into your pre-focused 'kill zone' and be ready
- i found it very, very helpful, after some experimenting, that I kept my left eye open while shooting (I use my right eye on the camera) to help my brain keep them in the camera field of view (this was surprising how much it helped) - it does take some getting use to as when you are at approximately 300mm your right eye is seeing one size of the world and your left eye is seeing the other - but in terms of tracking it helped me
- on the 100-400II, Stabilizer mode 3 was by far the best - for everything else I prefer mode #1, but I am pretty sure #1 & #2 kills your success rate - #3 or nothing
- SS of 3500 to 5000 or higher are required for the insect eating birds that basically defy physics at the rate that they change directions
- I cannot stress enough that you must pre-focus to a specific distance so that the camera has a chance once they enter the zone - otherwise you have ZERO chance of the camera being fast enough - it's like having a Pentium 386 when a 12 core Xeon E7 is required (almost everything else I found to be of secondary concern)
- if you do the above, track them coming into your zone, and when they enter, BB focus with Equal Priority on 1st and 2nd, and I use my right ring finger on the DoF button to switch from center 9pt to enable AF Function with 65pt, with either Case 4,5 or 6, then you stand a very good chance of getting your shot
- if you don't do all of the above, I found the camera would NEVER get the small kamikaze birds - my batting average was basically zero until i found this formula after much trial and error

Thanks for the tips. Jet fighters. Now this is where you start to experiment with case numbers and tweaks. I want to go to a drag race and try out 4 some day.

Need some help/advice I took my 7d and 7D Mark II (3rd body) out today I wanted to see how they compared I've been experiencing some issues with it not wanting to focus or loosing focus. I set both cameras to relatively the same settings Tv mode Shutter Speed 1/1250 Av 5.6, Auto ISO ( it was around 106 or so on most shots)and I used the same lens(EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM Lens)what I found was the 7D seemed to focus faster and stay focused as I tracked the subject or it moved. I'm not sure but it seems like the 7D Mark II randomly back,front focuses then its right on target. I did the MFA on the 7D Mark II but not the 7D. I'm not saying all the shots from the 7D were perfect maybe 85% keepers (233 shots) the example below was pretty consistent. The 7D Mark II also had some decent shots not all were bad about 40% keepers(236shots) when the AF decides it wants to work it works good. Here are a few examples (these are screen caps from the unedited raw shots) all shots were take at roughly the same distance.
Thanks
John

These were taken with the 7D Mark II

IMAGE LINK: http://i1237.photobuck​et.com …%20point2_zpsch​sovrl5.jpg

IMAGE LINK: http://i1237.photobuck​et.com …%20point4_zps4e​tlcg1c.jpg

IMAGE LINK: http://i1237.photobuck​et.com …%20point3_zpsck​hlgjym.jpg

IMAGE LINK: http://i1237.photobuck​et.com …%20point1_zpsg5​j2sdgz.jpg

IMAGE LINK: http://i1237.photobuck​et.com …%20point1_zpsy1​kwa7vi.jpg

IMAGE LINK: http://i1237.photobuck​et.com …%20point2_zpsxn​klyjki.jpg

Both of those 7D shots look front-focused to me (but not horribly). That first one would have me wanting to throw my camera into the rocks, though.

Have you updated the firmware on the 7D MKII yet?

That first one would have me wanting to throw my camera into the rocks, though.

It's very frustrating

Yes firmware is updated

can you give us some more details on how you set up the camera

- AI Servo, Single shoot
- BBF y/n
- which focus points used?
- IS on or off as you are tracking birds
- etc, etc, etc

Here are the settings on the camera.
BBF on shutter button set to metering
Focus Points: Expanded AF 9 points (I have tried all of them at one time or another)
AI servo
evaluate metering
low speed continuous 7 fps
ISO Auto
AWB
Case 1 (the camera AF acts the same regardless of the case its in)
AI servo 1st and 2nd image priority both set to Focus
Latest Firmware 1.0.4
Thanks
John

JM45ACP wrote in post #17569637
Here are the settings on the camera.
BBF on shutter button set to metering
Focus Points: Expanded AF 9 points (I have tried all of them at one time or another)
AI servo
evaluate metering
low speed continuous 7 fps
ISO Auto
AWB
Case 1 (the camera AF acts the same regardless of the case its in)
AI servo 1st and 2nd image priority both set to Focus
Latest Firmware 1.0.4
Thanks
John

Personally I would always use single point focus, Single shot AF Mode or AI Focus and a high enough shutter speed to freeze any movement. I know some folks insist on using AI Servo all the time for moving subjects which is correct, but a bird on the ground is hardly moving and AI Servo isn't appropriate in this case. If your shutter speed is correct and your focus point selection is correct you should nail these shots without difficulty. I can only speak for myself but I have rarely failed to nail a bird on the deck using the above settings. The small brown bird in the first image is poorly contrasted with the background which doesn't help the camera. AI Servo is for action shots , and I wouldn't class this as action photography
This is just my opinion John, but it works for me anyway, hope this helps

John,
A couple of thoughts:

First, BBF is the invention of the devil when it comes to birds walking or jumping limb to limb. I lead photo workshops in Africa and invariably, there is a beginner (I'm not talking of you) that has read about BBF from Art Morris and feels it is magic. Unfortunately, they forget to refocus once the animal or bird moves. When the subject is as close as your example, a simple tilt of body angle is all it takes to put the body out of focus. In your first two images, the focus point is clearly behind the bird, so this could have been your issue.

Second, the birds look VERY CLOSE. It looks like the bird may have been inside your minimum focus range setting. Another very common mistake.

I know the bird looks bigger in frame on the last two vs the first two with 7D MkII. Was it the exact same lens with exact same settings?

Also regarding MFA, this doesn't change focus point inches, it changes it small mm amounts. This is not the issue.

On shots where no focus point was active, was this a middle shot from a burst? I've often had this happen and had sharp birds in flight as the bird stayed on the same plane as the prior shot which did have an active focus point.

I think you mean John, Buddy, not my photos or problem

Canon-Chas wrote in post #17570123
I think you mean John, Buddy, not my photos or problem

correct. sorry about that.

Canon-Chas wrote in post #17570077
Personally I would always use single point focus, Single shot AF Mode or AI Focus and a high enough shutter speed to freeze any movement. I know some folks insist on using AI Servo all the time for moving subjects which is correct, but a bird on the ground is hardly moving and AI Servo isn't appropriate in this case. If your shutter speed is correct and your focus point selection is correct you should nail these shots without difficulty. I can only speak for myself but I have rarely failed to nail a bird on the deck using the above settings. The small brown bird in the first image is poorly contrasted with the background which doesn't help the camera. AI Servo is for action shots , and I wouldn't class this as action photography
This is just my opinion John, but it works for me anyway, hope this helps

Aside from sertting both 1st and 2nd priority to focus this is pretty much factory sertings.

digital paradise wrote in post #17570259
Aside from sertting both 1st and 2nd priority to focus this is pretty much factory sertings.

It's also the first time I've seen anyone here recommend AI-Focus for anything, ever.

I didn't pick that up. I tied it once long ago but I can't remember how it did. It is supposed to work but I toggle between one shot and Servo mostly because of everything I've read over the years.