7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

I agree about using a single point where possible - and one of the reasons on the 7d2 is that the focus points you see on the screen are just not accurate in terms of the size that you think they are.

I also agree about bbf and removing AF from the shutter button because you have a much higher chance of having your right thumb release the slightest of pressure or have the image move very slightly and image is oof.

As a test the fist thing I would do is a basic test returning AF to the shutter and see if you get a sharp picture with single center point and then build from there to see where the issue is - at the same time I would also reset mfa to zero or disable it in the menu - also do the test as close daylight temp light as possible. If a $2k camera can't take a single sharp picture at 20 feet at 1/1000, F5.6, auto is, single shot, return the camera.

If the above works them switch to A I Servo and move back and forth between a near target and far target 10 to. Es each time taking a picture.

Then use expanded center and repeat - then expanded 9 or whatever larger zone you were using. At some point in this test what ever was breaking down with the birds on the ground is going to reveal itself.

Good luck

I understand what you are saying but if the button is held in shouldn't the AF system continue to keep the subject in focus in this case the bird. I've been using it on my 7D and 60D before that and never had any issues with it shooting the same type of subjects. Ill try switching back to the shutter button and give it a try.

They were between 20 to 30 feet away according to the specs the closest focusing distance is 1.2m 3.9 feet.

Yes same lens I. I set both cameras up as close to each other as I could.

Thanks
John

If I take a picture of something not moving or an inanimate object it seems to work just fine. But I will try this out today.
Thanks
John

Quite a few people use AI focus http://www.dpreview.co​m/forums/post/55641877

Its there for a reason, subjects which stop and move like small birds on the deck

Canon-Chas wrote in post #17570506
Quite a few people use AI focus http://www.dpreview.co​m/forums/post/55641877

Its there for a reason, subjects which stop and move like small birds on the deck

Only feedback I have read is it not as accurate as either Servo or one shot. Many compensate by leaving it on servo all the time.

Anytime you automate much like zone AF it is a computer trying to figure out what you want. Kinda like my ETTL vs manual flash example I posted somewhere. I'd be ok for bird shots but I would not use it for a wedding unless I tested it extensivly which I have no desire to do.

I have no doubt it works.

Canon-Chas wrote in post #17570077
Personally I would always use single point focus, Single shot AF Mode or AI Focus and a high enough shutter speed to freeze any movement. I know some folks insist on using AI Servo all the time for moving subjects which is correct, but a bird on the ground is hardly moving and AI Servo isn't appropriate in this case. If your shutter speed is correct and your focus point selection is correct you should nail these shots without difficulty. I can only speak for myself but I have rarely failed to nail a bird on the deck using the above settings. The small brown bird in the first image is poorly contrasted with the background which doesn't help the camera. AI Servo is for action shots , and I wouldn't class this as action photography
This is just my opinion John, but it works for me anyway, hope this helps

I agree on single point AF in a case like this, (and one of the absolute beauties of the 7D2 is how immediately one can switch the camera from some form of multi AF point back to single. It is a true godsend! )(Canonsend?) I would not agree on "always" but I may misunderstand your meaning.

JM, be sure to get familiar with changing the AF Group mode settings on the fly asap. The 7D2s addition of this control means you should never be forced to use multi point when single would would be better, and likewise, it means that for those "I always shoot singe AF point" people, that they have even less reason to make such a choice, and should take advantage of the impressive results and advances that automatic AF point selection and subject tracking can provide in a modern 65 point AF system like the 7D2.

IMHO the addition of this control is the single greatest ergonomic advance in Canon bodies since they introduced the "multicontroller" joystick for AF point selection. on the 20D in 2005.

the trick of course is learning when to use each group, and learning to use that control to switch on the fly!

Not sure I agree on single shot or AI focus. And of course I am and have been for some time one of the true believers in BBF, so some of these suggestions seem opposite to how I'd handle it.

JM, Looking at the images, the ones that missed focus were taken from further away, at a tough angle where the subject vs. background would be hard for the camera to discern. This is where any form of multipoint AF can fail you. Here a singe point would be beneficial tremendously.

The 7D 1 shots were closer to the subject, (or zoomed in more, either way filling the frame more) and at less of an extreme angle from what I can see. This puts more distance between subject and background, making it easier for a multipoint mode to decide to focus on subject vs. background. I would NOT therefore consider the shooting conditions to be comparable. Perhaps I am seeing it wrong.

As for AI focus, I've not used it since I had a 10D and it did not work well on that body at all. It struggled to know when to move to AI Servo and thus failed to be ready when i needed it. then there was a decade of only shooting 1D series bodies, which do not include AI Focus as an option. A point that I would like to make here, Canon understands when it is better to leave such choices in how a Cameras AF system behaves to the Pros that shoot the pro body, and not assume that the body should make that choice.

Today we have non 1D bodies that are much more capable than in the past (5D3 7D2 ) so these have been reintroduced into my world. It is possible (likely) that Ai Focus is better than it was back when last I had it, but at this point in time I feel confident that I can chose the single shot vs. AI Servo setting well enough, likely better than even the 7D2 can.


.. EDIT Bold added as I rambled on so much, I did not want the main point of my post to be lost in my lengthy typing...

I will admit Im guilty of leaving it on one setting I am tryin to do as you suggested but find myself forgetting to or remembering to switch too late.
The main reason I had it set this way was because it closely mirrowered the 7D.

I also like BBF and have gotten used to it personally I think it's a very comfortable way to shoot. Normally I just leave the camera set to AI Servo with evaulate metering for macro I switch to oneshot with spot focus metering. Never used AI focus, AI Servo seemed like the best of both worlds for the subjects I was trying to shoot. Never really used partial or center weight metering either.
For BBF what suggestions would you have

All the shots were taken at pretty much the same angle I was sitting on the tailgate of my truck it was easier with both bodies. True some are zoomed in more than others betwen the two cameras I tried to keep the shots as close as possible but unfortunatly the birds didn't want to cooperate.

Thanks
John

I have my own thoughts on spot or multi point, I maybe way out there but I find that expecting one of those points on a small object in your image to grab perfect focus is not what having them is about. Laying multiple points on a subject filling the view finder Is how and what I think works best. If I am shooting at something thats out there I switch to centre spot or maybe with 4 or 8 points to assist.
But I don't expect that one point out of the centre group or the 65 points to get my focus.

Now I just shot this at 35 feet handheld 1/320, f5.0, iso800, 263mm

I just had a friend come by so I used him to show my meaning,..multiple points on target using centre group. I put the grain out there so he would stand out in what is left of the light

Here is centre plus the surrounding eight. Now you can see I was trying to shoot him in the eye. ,,I find myself changing up on demand, I shoot in manual and must use the meter that no one can see or should I say we sometimes have a hard time seeing. I use it and there is no other way when shooting in high contrast situations like in the bush with sun shine flooding patches and dark shadow, I change setting as many times as a change subjects and never look up with the 7DII.

I should have said also that everything I shoot which is wildlife mostly.... is done in AI Servo,..I don't think I have ever used one shot ever,.. The way i see it ..wild life is always in motion...in birds the different parts never stop moving. I don't think you can call any wildlife a still subject and when you can it is rare. In bigger game there siltiest move can rock them away from you and your moving can move you away from them and it can amount to more than that thin in focus layer that your all looking for. There for AI Servo is all I ever use.

Pondrader
Nice shots I wish I had subjects like that around here all I get if I go in the woods now is ticks.

Your gona need a macro lens then for sure. lol ,..Do you see what I was getting at ?? I shot the 7D before the 7DII and I hated it for its own reasons.,, But I made it shoot as well. try and under stand what the camera wants... not what you want the camera to do. and you will meet in the middle somewhere lol The 7DII is one heck of a shooter, light years ahead of the 7D. when ever I forget that fact I pick up the 7D and shoot it for a while,..I come back with a renewed sense of what and how good the 7DII really is. But first you need to shoot the tar out of it so you get use to all the new features. Put that 7D on your desk and forget about it for a while. My mark II is no more special than your's,..Ive just had mine longer lol and it takes me to school every time I use it.

I see what your getting at and it makes sense.
Here's one from the other day it was shot using center point with 8. probably 50 feet away or so. 1/1250 f6.3 ISO 250 at 300mm

IMAGE LINK: http://i1237.photobuck​et.com …%20goose1_zpsht​3clryn.jpg

Awesome...shoot it just like that .45..... put that bead on target and squeese.

JM45ACP wrote in post #17569637
Here are the settings on the camera.
BBF on shutter button set to metering
Focus Points: Expanded AF 9 points (I have tried all of them at one time or another)
AI servo
evaluate metering
low speed continuous 7 fps
ISO Auto
AWB
Case 1 (the camera AF acts the same regardless of the case its in)
AI servo 1st and 2nd image priority both set to Focus
Latest Firmware 1.0.4
Thanks
John

As a recommendation, you need to use single point or spot to decipher if you are really getting inconsistency. First double check your mfa.
In the first two, you don't know which of the 9 expanded points was used for focus. Only the first center point will show as the Active point. . Remember, phase detection in servo needs contrasty edges to focus on. Dark birds where the AF point falls on solid dark color are known to be very challenging.