7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

ok, I'm back. Crop with focus point below.

Oh, one question you asked that I didn't answer. All the crops so far are resized to 1024 on the long side. Didn't do anything here other than crop.

Rod

RodS57 wrote in post #17808624
Sort of what you requested but I never realized that the live view shot is using F7.1, ISO 400 and 1/320 sec 0 MFA while the second shot is shot using F6.3, ISO 100 and 1/100 sec and MFA set to -5. Ran the test shots from -5 to +5; two shots each setting; moved focus before each shot; 2 sec timer used. Never even noticed I changed shooting settings when I took the shots until I started to prep for posting here. Probably accounts for the difference in saturation/brightness.

as a result of the above differences this is not an apples to apples situation but it does give some idea as to what I am getting with the tamron.

Both shots at 600mm from about 20 feet.

The MFA at -5 still looks a little off so I set it to -6 for live testing which hasn't really happened yet.

live view @ 100%

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not live view @ 100% (MFA @ -5)

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Rod

This portion of the thread is what I would call Off Topic, you have No focus issue. (keep reading)...
First, please Forgive my problem misordered comments, never got sleep last night after an old friends wedding. (makes for a good story another time around a campfire shooting trip WITH Jeff

So, just confirming that you knew, mfa has no relevance when shooting live view.

At 20 feet, your dof is 0.07 dof. In this example he non-live view focus nailed it! I would try this mfa of - 5 at 100 feet at 600mm and see if it still works. (it is not unheard of to have to use, with a specific lens, with a particular focal length, different mfa values to accommodate two decently differemt distances.

Now commenting on this 'max' sharpness images from your Tamron...
I can't say how it compares to other copies.
Also, here is what concerns me... The Tamron works on full frame, not just crop bodies. However, in your crops of the Bills, on my tablet, There seems that there May be off center softness occurring in parts of the frame. If your camera was not very decently perpendicular to the plane of the bill, I can't explain this because off center softness usually become noticeable more toward the edge of a crop sensors and 'beyond' on a full frame. Seen mostly top portion of center, and bottom portion of center. BY THE WAY, did your position move that created the different field of views, or was it different resizing?

Here's what I think Rod, I think your focus grabbed the water just in front of the Loon and thats why the entire images looks out of focus except for the thin line just in front of the Loon. Shooting loons from a boat or kayak is not as easy as it looks. I try to do it from a solid like land lol I think your lens simply didn't have focus on the loon at the time of shutter release.

gschlact wrote in post #17809118
This portion of the thread is what I would call Off Topic, you have No focus issue. (keep reading)...
First, please Forgive my problem misordered comments, never got sleep last night after an old friends wedding. (makes for a good story another time around a campfire shooting trip WITH Jeff

So, just confirming that you knew, mfa has no relevance when shooting live view.

At 20 feet, your dof is 0.07 dof. In this example he non-live view focus nailed it! I would try this mfa of - 5 at 100 feet at 600mm and see if it still works. (it is not unheard of to have to use, with a specific lens, with a particular focal length, different mfa values to accommodate two decently differemt distances.

Now commenting on this 'max' sharpness images from your Tamron...
I can't say how it compares to other copies.
Also, here is what concerns me... The Tamron works on full frame, not just crop bodies. However, in your crops of the Bills, on my tablet, There seems that there May be off center softness occurring in parts of the frame. If your camera was not very decently perpendicular to the plane of the bill, I can't explain this because off center softness usually become noticeable more toward the edge of a crop sensors and 'beyond' on a full frame. Seen mostly top portion of center, and bottom portion of center. BY THE WAY, did your position move that created the different field of views, or was it different resizing?

I always resize to 1024 on the long edge for posting. For each picture I zoomed in to 100%, adjusted the view then cropped and resized. May account for the difference. I used a small level on the lens and as per somewhere else I used a mirror to confirm position. I was not perfectly perpendicular in all directions but I was very close. I was off by about the diameter of the lens hood, five inches or so.

Our bills are plastic so taped to the patio door you could see both sides at the same time. The clear section with the 20's was the only section where the back side did not interfere with the front side. Even the 20's in the black section are not perfectly aligned and interfere with each other for the purpose of a focus test.

Socked in here again today with heavy low clouds and a dull gray light and it's starting to snow.

Rod

All of my good Loon stuff is from land, on a tripod with a Jobu jr, and normally right down on the ground, I try to shoot eye level or close to on everything.

If you shoot from a boat you can expect to get many images that just don't cut it. I have a ton everytime I'm out in the Kayak. The boats going one way the Loon is bobing around the wind is pushing the boat, its just a tough situation to shoot in.

Jeff,,I agree its hard to get good shots from a boat. I disagree about it "going one way" my experience is that the boat moves in "3" ways. plus your own movement,plus the subject movement in the water.

lol so true, its super tough on days were theres a little wind and everything seems to be going twice as fast

Pondrader wrote in post #17809138
All of my good Loon stuff is from land, on a tripod with a Jobu jr, and normally right down on the ground, I try to shoot eye level or close to on everything.

If you shoot from a boat you can expect to get many images that just don't cut it. I have a ton everytime I'm out in the Kayak. The boats going one way the Loon is bobing around the wind is pushing the boat, its just a tough situation to shoot in.

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Hosted photo: posted by Pondrader in
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forum: Canon Digital Cameras

I don't shoot from a boat. At not so far. I did note with the loon picture that I used a guardrail to support the camera. Should I have said roadside guardrail? I was standing on the ground. When I saw the loon he was about 10 feet from shore. As soon as I stopped my truck he started to swim away. You know very well that when they dive there is no way to tell where they will surface. lacking concrete proof of another reason this one is user error.

Hope to be able to get the other shots Guy asked for but its iffy. What started as light snow has turned to drizzle.

Your post brings up what I was planning on asking about in a new thread. Namely a gimbal head setup. Exactly what would I need given the gear I have. Something that doesn't require a second mortgage. There is a spot about a mile from my house that I drive to. Most of the species of migrating birds that you would expect to see here can be found there at different times of the year and you can do it from a lawn chair if you want.

Rod

I spend a lot of time doing just that, driving around hitting hot spots and I too have used the guard rail for a steady, We have a internet public for sale site called Kijiji and I bought my tripod and Jobu jr new in box for really good prices on that site.

gschlact wrote in post #17809118
This portion of the thread is what I would call Off Topic, you have No focus issue. (keep reading)...
First, please Forgive my problem misordered comments, never got sleep last night after an old friends wedding. (makes for a good story another time around a campfire shooting trip WITH Jeff

So, just confirming that you knew, mfa has no relevance when shooting live view.

At 20 feet, your dof is 0.07 dof. In this example he non-live view focus nailed it! I would try this mfa of - 5 at 100 feet at 600mm and see if it still works. (it is not unheard of to have to use, with a specific lens, with a particular focal length, different mfa values to accommodate two decently differemt distances.

Now commenting on this 'max' sharpness images from your Tamron...
I can't say how it compares to other copies.
Also, here is what concerns me... The Tamron works on full frame, not just crop bodies. However, in your crops of the Bills, on my tablet, There seems that there May be off center softness occurring in parts of the frame. If your camera was not very decently perpendicular to the plane of the bill, I can't explain this because off center softness usually become noticeable more toward the edge of a crop sensors and 'beyond' on a full frame. Seen mostly top portion of center, and bottom portion of center. BY THE WAY, did your position move that created the different field of views, or was it different resizing?

Ok, managed to do the requested distance shots. Ten shots total. 2 in live view and 6 normal AF at about 100 feet. Moved in to about 70 feet and did a couple at 400mm. The shots at 600mm with and without live view are consistant except for one shot which was out of whack. The shots at 400mm are much sharper. I had the camera set to F6.3 and ISO 400 in Av mode with two second timer. This combo is at the limit of my 40 something year old tripod so not rock steady. Shutter speeds were too low although it was enough to confirm the -6 MFA I have dialed in. Definitely need to push the F number higher at 600mm.

I hate testing due to the mandatory wtf moments. Camera set to ISO 400 and still shows 400; the two live view shots show ISO 500; then I have 400, 400, 800, 1000, 400, 400, 400 and 400. Maybe I have something set somewhere.

Rod

Pondrader wrote in post #17809121
Here's what I think Rod, I think your focus grabbed the water just in front of the Loon and thats why the entire images looks out of focus except for the thin line just in front of the Loon. Shooting loons from a boat or kayak is not as easy as it looks. I try to do it from a solid like land lol I think your lens simple didn't have focus on the loon at the time of shutter release.

This is correct.
Remember actual AF mechanism is about 2x height and 2x width of the indicated rectangle in the VF. Essentially they pretty much reach to the next VF adjacent rectangle. So the lower part of the re AF point caught the choppy ripple where it is sharpest.

Lol
Heck, from a boat shooting my kids at the end of a rope and with fixed distance, I have shots of sky, wake, background etc with narry a limb of theirs.
Definitely not the camera, and becomes entertaining while reviewing how.bad they can be.

So true, I was out on the lake in the kayak after the Loon chick was born and it was almost impossible to shoot them. I had the tripod setup in front of me and it quickly became apparent that was never going to work that day. I had to freehand it to even get the Loons in the viewfinder

RodS57 wrote in post #17809130
I always resize to 1024 on the long edge for posting. For each picture I zoomed in to 100%, adjusted the view then cropped and resized. May account for the difference. I used a small level on the lens and as per somewhere else I used a mirror to confirm position. I was not perfectly perpendicular in all directions but I was very close. I was off by about the diameter of the lens hood, five inches or so.

Our bills are plastic so taped to the patio door you could see both sides at the same time. The clear section with the 20's was the only section where the back side did not interfere with the front side. Even the 20's in the black section are not perfectly aligned and interfere with each other for the purpose of a focus test.

Socked in here again today with heavy low clouds and a dull gray light and it's starting to snow.

Rod

ROD
If you are telling me I was seeing the second side (behind the front) I'll believed you and say you are working fine and that improvement will come from ss, technique and continuing to learn about the camera so you better can expect /predict/understand your results.

So, last thing to do is check mfA longer distance so you know you have it dialed in still.

RodS57 wrote in post #17809114
ok, I'm back. Crop with focus point below.

Oh, one question you asked that I didn't answer. All the crops so far are resized to 1024 on the long side. Didn't do anything here other than crop.

Rod

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Imagine that the AF locked on the light/dark/light band in the water, behind the bird. That band is moving. What if there was another band, before this one, that appeared to be moving toward the camera. Servo might have 'tracked' that band, and focused in front of the bird, extrapolating that that is where the band would be when the shutter fired.

Keep in mind that we have NO idea what light/dark pattern the AF chooses. We also don't know it's pixel pitch, so even though we tend to focus on the neck pattern in the bird, that pattern might be too small for the AF to see.