7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

diamonddawg21 wrote in post #17811436
yesterday ordered a canon 7D mark II to replace my 7D that I am giving to my college age son that is taking a photography class. I had no real plans of upgrading my 7D as it was doing an excellent job for what I use it for which is my kids sports, parties and some portraits. I had planned on buying my son a refurbished SL1 but a good friend gave him a 35MM film camera and he has been using it a ton for street photography projects for his class as well as developing his own film. My wife suggested I upgrade and give him my 7D. I have been watching this thread closely and to be honest almost did not order the camera, but I remembered when I upgraded to the 7D from my 50D I had a small learning curve, but it looks like there is a steep learning curve with the Mark II, as well as a few possible dud bodies in the wild. I am going into this with a open mind and will keep everyone posted as I step through this new adventure.

Good stuff, diamonddawg21. I think you will be very pleased. The learning curve is no big deal, as long as you don't start with birds in flight. Do keep us updated.

Sent my refurb back after talking with the Canon rep. She mentioned that this was odd, not being updated with the latest firmware coming back out of the factory (1.02). Wonder if this on fell through the cracks.

I gave it 4 outings in the field and 2 sessions in a controlled setting. So many shots during my use with nothing focused at all. So don't think front or back focus was that much of an issue. DPP showing focus points on static shots blurred. Even on a tripod remote shooting, with and without IS using 3 different lenses. Not giving up yet, went for a new one being offered by B&H. Hopefully getting a new one I get a lotto winner this time!

Shot a bit with my old Mark I yesterday, still feels great and sharp as a tack! I would be so happy if the Mark II could match the IQ quality of my Mark I.

I have seen a new problem. The built in wildlife detector seems to have failed.
I am on vacation in Florida and yesterday my first bald eagle appeared and landed in a tree at the end of the lake, well within shooting range. Unfortunately, the camera was in the house, not having warned me of the arriving eagle. While I was debating going inside to retrieve my camera an osprey swooped down on the eagle proceeded to chase it along the lake within 30 feet of me. While I was delighted to see all this, I was disappointed not to have my camera to hand.
To make matters worse, my wife reported that while I was out at the supermarket a pelican put on a fishing display within 10 feet of the shore, right in front of the house we are staying in. It dived into the water several times and caught a fish.

Should I be concerned that my 7DII failed to capture these? Would a 1DX have been better? ԰

Honey Monster wrote in post #17811521
I have seen a new problem. The built in wildlife detector seems to have failed.
I am on vacation in Florida and yesterday my first bald eagle appeared and landed in a tree at the end of the lake, well within shooting range. Unfortunately, the camera was in the house, not having warned me of the arriving eagle. While I was debating going inside to retrieve my camera an osprey swooped down on the eagle proceeded to chase it along the lake within 30 feet of me. While I was delighted to see all this, I was disappointed not to have my camera to hand.
To make matters worse, my wife reported that while I was out at the supermarket a pelican put on a fishing display within 10 feet of the shore, right in front of the house we are staying in. It dived into the water several times and caught a fish.

Should I be concerned that my 7DII failed to capture these? Would a 1DX have been better? ԰

Now, if I was a Nikon fanboy I would probably tell you to get a good camera with a built in wildlife detector like the D7200.

diamonddawg21 wrote in post #17811436
yesterday ordered a canon 7D mark II to replace my 7D that I am giving to my college age son that is taking a photography class. I had no real plans of upgrading my 7D as it was doing an excellent job for what I use it for which is my kids sports, parties and some portraits. I had planned on buying my son a refurbished SL1 but a good friend gave him a 35MM film camera and he has been using it a ton for street photography projects for his class as well as developing his own film. My wife suggested I upgrade and give him my 7D. I have been watching this thread closely and to be honest almost did not order the camera, but I remembered when I upgraded to the 7D from my 50D I had a small learning curve, but it looks like there is a steep learning curve with the Mark II, as well as a few possible dud bodies in the wild. I am going into this with a open mind and will keep everyone posted as I step through this new adventure.

There isn't much of a learning curve IMO. Don't get hung up on trying to master the case numbers in the first weekend. I can easily hit most BIF and other moving targets with factory settings - case 1. The 7D offered TS and I set mine to -2 in 2009 and left it like that for 5 years.

In addition to TS the 7D2 offers Accel/Decel and AF switching which you don't need to adjust in first few weeks, if ever. For single point or expansion I use case 2 where TS is set to -1 from the factory. I set it to -2. Of course I could have done that in Case 1 if I wanted to. I use other cases for zone AF that I can share with you if you would like.

Watch this video and see what the presenter says in the first minute about the case numbers. I have proved that to be true.

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=7sgRZBo-WKI

Case numbers control tracking characteristics. As for initial focus - it either does or it doesn't. There is no grey area. Except for MFA there are no AF fine tuning controls. You can set how many times you want the system to re-confirm initial focus lock.

Purple AF menu - tab 3 - One shot release prior. There are 2 choices, release or focus (factory setting). Most people leave that on focus.

Purple AF menu - tab 2 - AI Servo 1st (initial AF) and 2nd image priority (subsequent shots in burst mode). Factory is equal which is more than adequate for most situations but some people like to set one or both on focus.

That is about it. There is not much more you can really do. Technique and correct shutter speeds will got much further than mucking around with all of the above stuff.

I would start in the custom controls and set to the multi - controller to move AF points around which you probably did on the 7D and set the new AF area selection lever to change AF modes.

A nice feature the 7D2 has is you can set sub menus when you set up the AF-ON and * buttons. Again in the custom functions it is called "detail set". Just press the info button.

digital paradise wrote in post #17811615
There isn't much of a learning curve IMO. Don't get hung up on trying to master the case numbers in the first weekend. I can easily hit most BIF and other moving targets with factory settings - case 1. The 7D offered TS and I set mine to -2 in 2009 and left it like that for 5 years.

In addition to TS the 7D2 offers Accel/Decel and AF switching which you don't need to adjust in first few weeks, if ever. For single point or expansion I use case 2 where TS is set to -1 from the factory. I set it to -2. Of course I could have done that in Case 1 if I wanted to. I use other cases for zone AF that I can share with you if you would like.

Watch this video and see what the presenter says in the first minute about the case numbers. I have proved that to be true.

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=7sgRZBo-WKI

Case numbers control tracking characteristics. As for initial focus - it either does or it doesn't. There is no grey area. Except for MFA there are no AF fine tuning controls. You can set how many times you want the system to re-confirm initial focus lock.

Purple AF menu - tab 3 - One shot release prior. There are 2 choices, release or focus (factory setting). Most people leave that on focus.

Purple AF menu - tab 2 - AI Servo 1st (initial AF) and 2nd image priority (subsequent shots in burst mode). Factory is equal which is more than adequate for most situations but some people like to set one or both on focus.

That is about it. There is not much more you can really do. Technique and correct shutter speeds will got much further than mucking around with all of the above stuff.

I would start in the custom controls and set to the multi - controller to move AF points around which you probably did on the 7D and set the new AF area selection lever to change AF modes.

A nice feature the 7D2 has is you can set sub menus when you set up the AF-ON and * buttons. Again in the custom functions it is called "detail set". Just press the info button.

Last thing that is new to this camera. iTR – Intelligent Tracking and Recognition

iTR executes AF by recognizing faces and colors. This can be located on the AF4 (purple menus) screen and cab be enabled or disabled.

In AI Servo mode, the camera not only uses the standard tracking characteristics but remembers a colour at the position it is focused on first, then continues to track and focus the subject switching AF points to track that colour.

In one-shot AF mode iTR basically looks for faces.

The manual states that when activated it will take longer to acquire focus. I’m not sure if a person could even tell as AF happens in milliseconds. It also states that if a face is too small in the frame it may have trouble finding it.

AF Area Selection Modes

1. First there the standard single point and spot focus point modes.

2. Followed by two expansion point modes to choose from.

- the first one enables 4 surrounding AF points

- the second one enables 8 surrounding AF points.

3. The 3 zones.

- zone – enables 12 AF points.

- large zone – enables the entire centre or 2 outside clusters

- All 65 points

If iTR is enabled (on the AF4 menu screen) it will activate in "all 3" zone AF modes only. So you may want to keep this in mind because if you go from expansion to zone it not only activates iTR (if enabled) but the AF tracking characteristics change as well. If you use Zone AF I would shut it off for now until you get used to your camera.

Wow

I've had my 7D2 for a year now, and what DP is saying looks like a fantastic summary of 7D2 settings. In all honesty, most of it is new to me. I have heard of this stuff, of course, but haven't gotten into most of it. So it will be useful to me too.

When I got my 7D2, I put a lens on it and started shooting. No special adjustments. Great results from day one.

Since then, I have learned back-button focusing and certainly some other techniques of the 7D2, but these can be tackled at leisure.

One does tend to settle into a routine, so it is useful to be reminded of the other capabilities of this camera.

digital paradise wrote in post #17811615
There isn't much of a learning curve IMO. Don't get hung up on trying to master the case numbers in the first weekend. I can easily hit most BIF and other moving targets with factory settings - case 1. The 7D offered TS and I set mine to -2 in 2009 and left it like that for 5 years.

In addition to TS the 7D2 offers Accel/Decel and AF switching which you don't need to adjust in first few weeks, if ever. For single point or expansion I use case 2 where TS is set to -1 from the factory. I set it to -2. Of course I could have done that in Case 1 if I wanted to. I use other cases for zone AF that I can share with you if you would like.

Watch this video and see what the presenter says in the first minute about the case numbers. I have proved that to be true.

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=7sgRZBo-WKI

Case numbers control tracking characteristics. As for initial focus - it either does or it doesn't. There is no grey area. Except for MFA there are no AF fine tuning controls. You can set how many times you want the system to re-confirm initial focus lock.

Purple AF menu - tab 3 - One shot release prior. There are 2 choices, release or focus (factory setting). Most people leave that on focus.

Purple AF menu - tab 2 - AI Servo 1st (initial AF) and 2nd image priority (subsequent shots in burst mode). Factory is equal which is more than adequate for most situations but some people like to set one or both on focus.

That is about it. There is not much more you can really do. Technique and correct shutter speeds will got much further than mucking around with all of the above stuff.

I would start in the custom controls and set to the multi - controller to move AF points around which you probably did on the 7D and set the new AF area selection lever to change AF modes.

A nice feature the 7D2 has is you can set sub menus when you set up the AF-ON and * buttons. Again in the custom functions it is called "detail set". Just press the info button.

Last thing that is new to this camera. iTR – Intelligent Tracking and Recognition

iTR executes AF by recognizing faces and colors. This can be located on the AF4 (purple menus) screen and cab be enabled or disabled.

In AI Servo mode, the camera not only uses the standard tracking characteristics but remembers a colour at the position it is focused on first, then continues to track and focus the subject switching AF points to track that colour.

In one-shot AF mode iTR basically looks for faces.

The manual states that when activated it will take longer to acquire focus. I’m not sure if a person could even tell as AF happens in milliseconds. It also states that if a face is too small in the frame it may have trouble finding it.

AF Area Selection Modes

1. First there the standard single point and spot focus point modes.

2. Followed by two expansion point modes to choose from.

- the first one enables 4 surrounding AF points

- the second one enables 8 surrounding AF points.

3. The 3 zones.

- zone – enables 12 AF points.

- large zone – enables the entire centre or 2 outside clusters

- All 65 points

If iTR is enabled (on the AF4 menu screen) it will activate in "all 3" zone AF modes only. So you may want to keep this in mind because if you go from expansion to zone it not only activates iTR (if enabled) but the AF tracking characteristics change as well. If you use Zone AF I would shut it off for now until you get used to your camera.

I assumed this will be a very good choice for BIF? This is very good info digital paradise. Thanks

If you had the top Dial set to " B " for bird, and you didn't get the shot it would be the camera,,,,,,if you had it set to any other letter then it would of course be user error .

digital paradise wrote in post #17811615
T..... You can set how many times you want the system to re-confirm initial focus lock.

Thanks Digital Paradise - great summary. Would you please expand on your statement above? Not sure what setting you are referring to.

mikef wrote in post #17811855
Thanks Digital Paradise - great summary. Would you please expand on your statement above? Not sure what setting you are referring to.

Well basically you press the Shutter or AF-ON buttons and the system focuses on your selected AF point when in single or expanded modes. You have no control over that. It just acquires focus and that is it.

However you can either tell it to just go with the initial AF lock or tell it to re-check that initial AF lock a few times to be sure. When set to Focus it will recheck and not let the camera shoot until it insures focus. When you choose Equal (AI Servo only) it checks less times. If you choose Release or Speed it focuses and fires immediately.

It is so fast it is hard to tell.

I am pleased to report that the wildlife detector failure was only temporary. Today ospreys, pelicans, wood storks and turkey vultures were all picked up.

My hit rate is not as good as I would like, but I think that is down to my technique rather than the camera. I just need to get out shooting more often. Today, I forced myself to use a tripod and managed to get sharp focus even though I wasn't following all the rules. I used AI servo and spot focus for a perched osprey, using a 2x TC on a Sigma 120 - 300 f/2.8 which I have not calibrated. The camera had no problems locking focus, despite all this. I think I often expect too much of the AF when the birds are too far away to get enough pixels on target. The humidity in Florida makes this worse, especially over water when sometimes nothing appears to be in focus.

I have learnt a lot from this forum and have been inspired by many posters to improve my photography, particularly by Pondrader on this thread.

Peter2516 wrote in post #17811734
I assumed this will be a very good choice for BIF? This is very good info digital paradise. Thanks

Case 2 with TS set to -2 is a very good start for single or expanded. Here is another take. Many people who bird lower the TS to keep focus on the subject. The single point or expansion cluster can go off the bird for a second or two and not lose focus. As long as you get back on right away.

http://www.timboyerpho​tography.com …s-and-flight-photography/

When I shoot zone AF I'm either in cases 5 or 6 and take advantage of increased AF Switching and Accel/Decel settings. One could do all this in case 1 but with 6 cases it is easier in the field. Case 1 is the base and the others are tweaks.

In April I put it to the test. I did some birding in cases 1, 2 5 and 6 and used single, expanded and zone in all the mentioned cases and it was a breeze. I was shooting larger - non erratic birds. If someone is going to try and shoot swallows the first day out it probably won't go very well so I never recommend that to new users. Veterans have to work harder at that. One step at at time until you gain confidence.

Honey Monster wrote in post #17811521
I have seen a new problem. The built in wildlife detector seems to have failed.
I am on vacation in Florida and yesterday my first bald eagle appeared and landed in a tree at the end of the lake, well within shooting range. Unfortunately, the camera was in the house, not having warned me of the arriving eagle. While I was debating going inside to retrieve my camera an osprey swooped down on the eagle proceeded to chase it along the lake within 30 feet of me. While I was delighted to see all this, I was disappointed not to have my camera to hand.
To make matters worse, my wife reported that while I was out at the supermarket a pelican put on a fishing display within 10 feet of the shore, right in front of the house we are staying in. It dived into the water several times and caught a fish.

Should I be concerned that my 7DII failed to capture these? Would a 1DX have been better? ԰

We'll, given that I don't know your shooting history, I'll give you a pass and not blame the user. So it must be a defective 7dii that Sloop many others have complained about. . . .

How to rectify-
Leave hanging by the door so you don't leave home without it.
Put on Magic GREEN square Mode for BIF, after all, it is a sports and wildlife Camera so it must know what to do.

/Sarcasm_off

Well my 7D2 arrived today. Looks nice and the handling is fine, though it is tiny after my 1 Series - might need a grip? AF seems snappy and accurate on my 24-70 and 16-35, though I am hoping to try it on my 800mm tomorrow - if the weather and the Kingfishers co-operate!
I have put the settings (AF, Back Button Focus etc) as near as I can to my 1DX so there shouldn't be too many mistakes! We shall see!

I had three bad bodies..does that count for 3 names?