7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18048933
I don't understand it either, and have never really understood the "electronic adjustments were made" comments I have personally received. I think what it means is that they changed some configurations/lookup tables inside to alleviate the issue.

I had a 5D2 that had excessive noise. I sent it in, they cam back with this explanation. The noise was only marginally better, but the same pattern was in place. I think they just changed some parameters related to NR and nothing else.

It sounds better that they "changed something electronically" than "they changed some configuration settings". It makes customers feel better, until we collectively talk about it.

I think I'll call Canon about that next week. I did ask once and I think they said it was just a calibration but I can't remember the details. I would kinda compare it to manually focusing a lens.

I don't know anything about battery stuff, etc. A very accomplished birder at POTN who has a 1DX and has owned other 1D series said he still had some inconsistency in burst shooting with the 7D2. There has been a little chatter about possible mirror vibration. Nothing conclusive. I am curious as to why Canon put a motorized mirror in the 80D.

I have found a dandy spot to photograph swallows, out on the Katy Prairie. I realize these are difficult subjects, one of the reasons I searched for them is the challenge they provide for me and my equipment. Unfortunately, I continue to experience a problem with 65 point, AI Servo with BIF. Case 1, focus priority, ITR on, focus point selection AUTO. The camera often (50%+) chooses focus points where there is no bird, achieves focus and fires away. I think I can boil this down to two questions: Why does it select points where there is no bird, when there is a bird in the 65 point zone? and why does it achieve focus when there is no subject in the selected points? These two examples show the good and the bad in one burst sequence.

This is the first or nearly the first image of a continuous burst. I was impressed by this result, the swallow is almost out of the 65 point zone and the system nailed the shot.

I personally think this is just their standard response when they don't actually do anything except plug it into whatever they use for diagnostics and it comes back with a " it's in the acceptable parameters reading" at this point they say it's OK and or update it to the latest version and send it back which is most likely what they're instructed to do, but as you stated it makes the customer feel better (the average uninformed customer)Not sure what they really could adjust electronically I would think these parameters would be set and verified during the final inspection phase and why not set them to optimal then. I've sent two bodies back to canon for issues a 60D and my 7DMK II for focus issues this was the response both times nether camera appeared to be any different when I asked what was actually done I got the same answer but verbally
John

mikeivan wrote in post #18049020
I have found a dandy spot to photograph swallows, out on the Katy Prairie. I realize these are difficult subjects, one of the reasons I searched for them is the challenge they provide for me and my equipment. Unfortunately, I continue to experience a problem with 65 point, AI Servo with BIF. Case 1, focus priority, ITR on, focus point selection AUTO. The camera often (50%+) chooses focus points where there is no bird, achieves focus and fires away. I think I can boil this down to two questions: Why does it select points where there is no bird, when there is a bird in the 65 point zone? and why does it achieve focus when there is no subject in the selected points? These two examples show the good and the bad in one burst sequence.

This is the first or nearly the first image of a continuous burst. I was impressed by this result, the swallow is almost out of the 65 point zone and the system nailed the shot.

Hosted photo: posted by mikeivan in
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forum: Canon Digital Cameras

This is an image from the middle of the same burst. I was disappointed with this result, I managed to center this elusive target and the system focused on empty space. Amazingly, the swallow is pretty sharp. In the other images where the wrong focus points were selected, the bird is soft.

Hosted photo: posted by mikeivan in
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forum: Canon Digital Cameras

I have tried center point with assists but I have insufficient skill to keep these erratic BIF's in that small area. I will try Case 6 and Case 3 with Arthur Morris' parameters. Changing case number is about all I have come up with. I am hoping some one with more experience than I can make a suggestion/diagnosis. Thanks for any assistance.

Small birds are always a big challenge. They all do that. 65 point zone is just a computer trying to figure out what you want. Those AF points are not in real time as the system tracks and tries to keep up. Case 1 TS is at 0 which is still pretty good at maintaining focus if the bird moves faster than the computer or you can track it . For precise tracking I like to use Case 2, single point or expansion and set TS to -2. For 65 point zone I use case 6. Try setting AF Switching a little faster in 65 point zone. I would not trust the AF points locations shooting in AI Servo. As long as you are getting keepers.

I was tracking this bird and it swooped up. The AF point is now where near the bird in this frame and was not on it in the previous 2.

Lester Wareham wrote in post #18048886
(Snip)

I guess we sum it up that humans are belief driving creatures not fact or logic driven, they like to believe stuff and make up facts to fit the belief.

Thank you for that. It is the best explanation I've seen that describes what the 7D2 advertisements say and what I am experiencing.

I'm still hoping it's more my lack of skill than the camera. At least I might improve but a bad camera will always be a bad camera.

Rod

digital paradise wrote in post #18049090
Also I would maybe try disabling iTR. There were conversations if it that is more human recognition based. I disabled mine the first day and I have read on other sites people have birded with it on and when disabled it got better results.

I've found disabling iTR beneficial for wildlife too - I think situations where there aren't particularly bold colours are problematic for it. It seems to work well for sports where players jerseys / vehicles etc are strongly coloured and very different to the background.
It's a 150k RGB+IR 252 zone metering sensor so what it "sees" in the frame and how this assists PDAF is hard to visualise, especially when like the phase detect system it must be working with light that's out of focus. I think overall though it does assist metering more than AF - the 7DII's metering is certainly more reliable than my 6D in tricky situations.

JM45ACP wrote in post #18049046
I personally think this is just their standard response when they don't actually do anything except plug it into whatever they use for diagnostics and it comes back with a " it's in the acceptable parameters reading" at this point they say it's OK and or update it to the latest version and send it back which is most likely what they're instructed to do, but as you stated it makes the customer feel better (the average uninformed customer)Not sure what they really could adjust electronically I would think these parameters would be set and verified during the final inspection phase and why not set them to optimal then. I've sent two bodies back to canon for issues a 60D and my 7DMK II for focus issues this was the response both times nether camera appeared to be any different when I asked what was actually done I got the same answer but verbally
John

Yes I think its a placebo diagnosis too. Trouble is it makes things worse once customers get wise to that.

mikeivan wrote in post #18049020
I have found a dandy spot to photograph swallows, out on the Katy Prairie. I realize these are difficult subjects, one of the reasons I searched for them is the challenge they provide for me and my equipment. Unfortunately, I continue to experience a problem with 65 point, AI Servo with BIF. Case 1, focus priority, ITR on, focus point selection AUTO. The camera often (50%+) chooses focus points where there is no bird, achieves focus and fires away. I think I can boil this down to two questions: Why does it select points where there is no bird, when there is a bird in the 65 point zone? and why does it achieve focus when there is no subject in the selected points? These two examples show the good and the bad in one burst sequence.

This is the first or nearly the first image of a continuous burst. I was impressed by this result, the swallow is almost out of the 65 point zone and the system nailed the shot.

Hosted photo: posted by mikeivan in
./showthread.php?p=180​49020&i=i205570431
forum: Canon Digital Cameras

This is an image from the middle of the same burst. I was disappointed with this result, I managed to center this elusive target and the system focused on empty space. Amazingly, the swallow is pretty sharp. In the other images where the wrong focus points were selected, the bird is soft.

Hosted photo: posted by mikeivan in
./showthread.php?p=180​49020&i=i146023033
forum: Canon Digital Cameras

I have tried center point with assists but I have insufficient skill to keep these erratic BIF's in that small area. I will try Case 6 and Case 3 with Arthur Morris' parameters. Changing case number is about all I have come up with. I am hoping some one with more experience than I can make a suggestion/diagnosis. Thanks for any assistance.

First off you have picked a darn hard subject, I tried these too when I first got the 7DII, I had some success but an low keeper rate, here is an example, not bad for a budget zoom, this is a 1/4 area crop.

Thank you all for these responses. I will try disabling iTR. It is news to me that the focus point locations are not in real time but I can understand how that could happen. Changing to Case 6 seems the most likely to help with these elusive little creatures. I will report back, if I get better results. Thanks again.

JM45ACP wrote in post #18049046
I personally think this is just their standard response when they don't actually do anything except plug it into whatever they use for diagnostics and it comes back with a " it's in the acceptable parameters reading" at this point they say it's OK and or update it to the latest version and send it back which is most likely what they're instructed to do, but as you stated it makes the customer feel better (the average uninformed customer)Not sure what they really could adjust electronically I would think these parameters would be set and verified during the final inspection phase and why not set them to optimal then. I've sent two bodies back to canon for issues a 60D and my 7DMK II for focus issues this was the response both times nether camera appeared to be any different when I asked what was actually done I got the same answer but verbally
John

So Canon told you verbally? They actually write that down on the work order. I'm going to call them this week and actually say that people think it is just a placebo response and press them. I worked in the print industry and maintenance used an oscilloscope to tune high speed scanners. I think it was an oscilloscope. It was what you used to see the B science fiction movies

After I received the camera back 7d MK II I called them and inquired what was actually done to it because to me the description on the work order was extremely vague (electronic adjustments were made) and it didn't really seem to be any different all I could really get out of them was that it was looked at and the ever popular electronic adjustments were made but they wouldn't elaborate on what these adjustments were I didn't push the issue because I kind of knew that I wasn't going to get anywhere. Either the notes they have don't say anything or its possible they're instructed not to give out information on what was done.
John

JM45ACP wrote in post #18049627
After I received the camera back 7d MK II I called them and inquired what was actually done to it because to me the description on the work order was extremely vague (electronic adjustments were made) and it didn't really seem to be any different all I could really get out of them was that it was looked at and the ever popular electronic adjustments were made but they wouldn't elaborate on what these adjustments were I didn't push the issue because I kind of knew that I wasn't going to get anywhere. Either the notes they have don't say anything or its possible they're instructed not to give out information on what was done.
John

Thanks for the info. I may not have any success either but I'll try.

No problem

It doesn't hurt to ask.

They also had me send in a disk with sample pictures on it they wanted JPEGs but I sent both JPG and RAW in the end it didn't really matter because they never looked at them I taped the case shut and it was never opened I really only taped it shut to keep it from opening during shipping because I was told It wouldn't be returned but I could tell the tape was never touched. Just another reason to make me wonder if they actually did anything to it past hooking it up to the magical diagnostic machine that does electrical adjustments
John

JM45ACP wrote in post #18049882
No problem

It doesn't hurt to ask.

They also had me send in a disk with sample pictures on it they wanted JPEGs but I sent both JPG and RAW in the end it didn't really matter because they never looked at them I taped the case shut and it was never opened I really only taped it shut to keep it from opening during shipping because I was told It wouldn't be returned but I could tell the tape was never touched. Just another reason to make me wonder if they actually did anything to it past hooking it up to the magical diagnostic machine that does electrical adjustments
John

Hosted photo: posted by JM45ACP in
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forum: Canon Digital Cameras

I don't agree with sending in images. A person looking at them to determine sharpness, etc is subjective. All I would ever want to insure the camera is set to spec.

the more of these type posts that I read, the less I'm inclined to join in this adventure.

I keep thinking that Canon will clean this up.

Yep, that's what I've been thinking - - since this first surfaced, many moons ago.