7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

mikeivan wrote in post #18049020
I have found a dandy spot to photograph swallows, out on the Katy Prairie. I realize these are difficult subjects, one of the reasons I searched for them is the challenge they provide for me and my equipment. Unfortunately, I continue to experience a problem with 65 point, AI Servo with BIF. Case 1, focus priority, ITR on, focus point selection AUTO. The camera often (50%+) chooses focus points where there is no bird, achieves focus and fires away. I think I can boil this down to two questions: Why does it select points where there is no bird, when there is a bird in the 65 point zone? and why does it achieve focus when there is no subject in the selected points? These two examples show the good and the bad in one burst sequence.

This is the first or nearly the first image of a continuous burst. I was impressed by this result, the swallow is almost out of the 65 point zone and the system nailed the shot.

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This is an image from the middle of the same burst. I was disappointed with this result, I managed to center this elusive target and the system focused on empty space. Amazingly, the swallow is pretty sharp. In the other images where the wrong focus points were selected, the bird is soft.

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I have tried center point with assists but I have insufficient skill to keep these erratic BIF's in that small area. I will try Case 6 and Case 3 with Arthur Morris' parameters. Changing case number is about all I have come up with. I am hoping some one with more experience than I can make a suggestion/diagnosis. Thanks for any assistance.

Mike,
Case 1 is not great for fast horizontal movement across the 65 points af. Art Morris settings with +2 af point switching will be much better as well as the accel decel. I bet you observe much betterkeeper rate with the Swallows with the improved settings. Let us know.

gschlact wrote in post #18050362
Mike,
Case 1 is not great for fast horizontal movement across the 65 points af. Art Morris settings with +2 af point switching will be much better as well as the accel decel. I bet you observe much betterkeeper rate with the Swallows with the improved settings. Let us know.

Even with +2 which helps a lot small fast birds are still a challenge.

digital paradise wrote in post #18049090
I was tracking this bird and it swooped up. The AF point is now where near the bird in this frame and was not on it in the previous 2.

probably, the camera was focusing on the water somewhere and the bird just happened to be in the same plane of focus. In 65 point zone the camera decides what is important and there isn't much you can do about it other than fill the frame with your target so there is no doubt or have a target that has far and away the highest contrast in the frame.

sidknee wrote in post #18050441
probably, the camera was focusing on the water somewhere and the bird just happened to be in the same plane of focus. In 65 point zone the camera decides what is important and there isn't much you can do about it other than fill the frame with your target so there is no doubt or have a target that has far and away the highest contrast in the frame.

No it was on the bird. It was a burst series and the first several shots the AF point was on the bird. The bird swooped up and I was not fast enough to keep up with it. The beauty of TS set to -2. The camera won't refocus on something else for about a second based on my tests. At 8 FPS technically I could get 7 shots in before it will look for something else to focus on, as long the AF point is on the target for the first shot.

digital paradise wrote in post #18050469

So are you using single point there not large zone 65 point af? I'm unfamiliar with how dpp displays which focus points were active but on ones I have seen previously here when in 65 point all focus points are shown over the image with active ones in red. Your images have just the one.
Also in a previous post you said that the focus points displayed in software are not likely correct due to some sort of latency in camera, is there any solid information regarding this as this seems to suggest that looking at focus points after the fact is a pointless exercise.

sidknee wrote in post #18050710
So are you using single point there not large zone 65 point af? I'm unfamiliar with how dpp displays which focus points were active but on ones I have seen previously here when in 65 point all focus points are shown over the image with active ones in red. Your images have just the one.
Also in a previous post you said that the focus points displayed in software are not likely correct due to some sort of latency in camera, is there any solid information regarding this as this seems to suggest that looking at focus points after the fact is a pointless exercise.

Although I use 65 point often for that sequence I was using 4 point expansion. We will never know if an outer point was used to assist the centre point as the LCD nor does DPP display it in Ai Servo. It only shows an activated assist point in One Shot.

I said activated because there is only always just one out assist point. Try it in darker hallway with little contrast. If the centre point does not see enough contrast an outer point will illuminate first followed by the centre point. They both are displayed on the LCD and in DPP. I suspect that it shows both to indicate the centre point was the intended AF point as it is the primary Af point in the expansion modes. Canon says expansion works the same in AI Servo but we just can't see if an outer point was activated.

I have to date to find any documentation on this. It is only my experience and by reading threads about this subject. As disappointing as it is I would personally not trust AI Servo due this latency.

I'll find some 65 point images but it will be the same thing. It can track well and display accurately but can be off.

Some bird shots taken yesterday. Don't know if this was the male or the female but it was not happy to have me around. Kept diving at me. The partner sat close by in a tree watching. These are cropped at 1/3 full size and then resized for posting. SOOC jgeps as usual.

Rod

More birds. A gull coming in for a landing. Taken this afternoon.

Rod

And another bird. Duck this time. Again from this afternoon. It was enjoying a late lunch.

Rod

Looks like I put my three posts with pictures in the wrong thread. Sorry. If someone knows how to move them it would be appreciated. They should be in the 7D2 post your pictures thread.

Rod

RodS57 wrote in post #18050926
Looks like I put my three posts with pictures in the wrong thread. Sorry. If someone knows how to move them it would be appreciated. They should be in the 7D2 post your pictures thread.

Rod

Best to move it yourself and delete the old ones, that's the only way at present.

So I called Canon and we did discuss the fact that the person is not a technician, just a liaison. Canon stopped the general public contacting the tech's a few years ago. My guess is they spent more time on the phone with customers than than fixing cameras. From a business standpoint I would have done the same.

I actually called back and asked two different service reps the same questions. I laid it out and said people on Canon forums are saying electrical adjustments are just a placebo to keep people happy and Canon service really doesn't do anything. They both assured me to it does go on a computer, etc and service will check electrical components and make mechanical adjustments to insure the camera is within specifications.

I have always felt confident Canon put my camera on some testing device whether they made adjustments or not. In my case they said they electrical adjustments and I have read threads where owners said everything was to spec so no adjustments were made. I can't back this, only what two service reps told me. Too bad no one knows or can contact an actual technician. I had one call me from NJ about my 24-70 II and of I had thought of it I would have asked since I had him on the phone.

I came across an interesting video. It shows a camera being attached to some device. What I really like is I used to have a picture of the rails Canon uses to calibrate lenses but misplaced it. They calibrate at different distances to the target and is why I prefer to send a Canon lens that needs a lot of MFA to Canon Service. There is a clip of the rail.

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=bxb0mxdu5UA

To continue this reviewer when it was on it was bang on but missed with no real explanation. It was not bad but noticeable. As I recall this review was dismissed and what I believe has been an issue for some.

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=UX6gK0bkq3g

Just for the record, I don't think anybody is saying that Canon is just providing lip service and isn't doing anything. What I think many of us are saying is that they are simply adjusting various system attributes/values/tabl​e lookups and that is it. They aren't changing anything hardware wise, or providing new software, etc. This is why many may not see any change in behavior, because these data adjustments don't solve the issue.

As an aside: do you still have a 7DII TeamSpeed? I remember that your were a freakin' artist with the M "I" ..