Good glass on a cheap SLR?

devh wrote in post #17296046
My own personal experience has been that cheaper lenses work better with crop cameras because it uses the best part of the lens.

It really depends on whether the best part of the lens can outresolve the sensor.
Some lenses cannot resolve the 20+ MP of newer APS-C sensors, while they are ok on 20 MP FF.

CheshireCat wrote in post #17296022
But then again, sometimes trying a "better" tool will inspire us toward new goals.

Experimenting is good ! If unsure, rent lenses/cameras and then decide.

Again, it's not better unless there's a goal in mind. Until such point, it's simply a different tool, not a better tool.

Yes, experimentation can be good, but experimenting is much more effective when you isolate variables so that you can learn how changing those variables affects the outcome. IOW, gaining a working understanding of your gear. Once you understand differences in FL, perspective, aperture, shutter speed, etc, you'll be able to understand what your gear can and can't do while being able to predict, with much more accuracy, which new tools would be better for a given task. As such, even people with one body and a kit lens can do an awful lot of creating and experimenting while learning how to efficiently guide their future purchases.

Don't get me wrong - I worked in sales for a long time and believe that an individual can spend their money however they please , but if a (non-moneybags) friend were asking me for advice, I'd rather that they make a thoughtful, informed decision rather than jump in blindly and become disillusioned.

King of Canada wrote in post #17296040
So many photo hobbiests are more professional shoppers than actual photographers.

Preach it, brother.

:p

CheshireCat wrote in post #17296062
It really depends on whether the best part of the lens can outresolve the sensor.
Some lenses cannot resolve the 20+ MP of newer APS-C sensors, while they are ok on 20 MP FF.

A lot has probably changed since my 20D when I had it but what I meant was, there is a lot more lens that the crop sensor doesn't see that ends up being the bottle neck that the full frame does see.

devh wrote in post #17296276
A lot has probably changed since my 20D when I had it but what I meant was, there is a lot more lens that the crop sensor doesn't see that ends up being the bottle neck that the full frame does see.

This is only true when using lenses that throw an image circle larger than necessary for the format. basically FF capable lenses on a crop sensor. The thing is though at the shorter focal lengths, say about 50mm and below, very often in order to get the most suitable lens for the job you have to go for a crop only choice. This makes sense really when you think about it. The full frame super wide lenses, that is 24mm or wider, are usually relatively slow, often zooms are no more than f/4 and even primes are mostly only f/2.8. As in the FF world these are specialist lenses, they are quite likely to be optimised for those specialist uses, and not for general use as a lens of wide to normal focal length.

Alan

Thanks guys for your input, much to consider. My main reason for an upgrade would be my focusing capabilities. I have difficulties for some reason getting my camera to focus, I have a quite a few missed shots because the camera isn't able to properly focus, and not just in low light. I figured that a full frame would be better at focusing, especially in low light. Would I be worng at thinking this?

CheshireCat wrote in post #17296062
It really depends on whether the best part of the lens can outresolve the sensor.
Some lenses cannot resolve the 20+ MP of newer APS-C sensors, while they are ok on 20 MP FF.

Exactly! Cameras like the 7D/7D2 really have an incredibly high pixel density and demand much more from the lens than, say, a 5D3. I can sometimes get better pictures from my 7D, but only when the lens is capable of delivering a sharp image to the sensor in the first place. If it delivers a poor MTF at the pixel pitch in question, no sensor will make it better and no autofocus algorithm will rescue the shots.

Davevw3 wrote in post #17296620
I figured that a full frame would be better at focusing, especially in low light. Would I be worng at thinking this?

Mostly wrong

There are cameras with APS-C sized sensors with great focusing systems and FF cameras with less than great systems.

For a less expensive proposition you might consider the 70d which still has an APS-C sized sensor but would be a significant upgrade in AF system.

I started with an XSi and a 70-200 2.8 IS. The body is long gone and the lens is still working wonders!

"Bodies come and go, lenses are forever..." A quote I've read on here more than one time

dalto wrote in post #17296661
Mostly wrong

There are cameras with APS-C sized sensors with great focusing systems and FF cameras with less than great systems.

For a less expensive proposition you might consider the 70d which still has an APS-C sized sensor but would be a significant upgrade in AF system.

I agree with you, however I would like to move to full frame for their lowlight capabilities, I just thought the AF would also be better. Id prefer to only upgrade once, to save money in the long run.

Thanks, and again your comments are welcomed.

Davevw3 wrote in post #17296620
My main reason for an upgrade would be my focusing capabilities. I have difficulties for some reason getting my camera to focus, I have a quite a few missed shots because the camera isn't able to properly focus, and not just in low light.

If I'm not mistaken, your T3 (1100D) only has only one cross-type AF point, the center one, and with a poor sensitivity of just f/5.6. That's probably the worst AF in the entire Canon EOS line up, so upgrading your body to pretty much anything else should yield some improvement there.

I noticed a significant improvement in AF performance when I upgraded from a 400D to a 60D (especially on the outer AF point as the 60D AF points are all cross-type -now a characteristic also shared among the latest Rebel bodies).

Going full frame will give you a better AF than your T3, but not necessarily better than some of the other crop bodies available. The 5D Mk II and 6D outer AF points are actually not cross-types, unlike on the latest Rebels and xxDs. I heard great things about the 6D center AF point though.

If you can't get the focus to lock, it's probably the body's fault. If it locks but not fast enough, then a lens upgrade (to a USM one) will probably solve it.

when i first went full frame, i only had the 50 1.8 II with that camera. that was some enjoyable photography (all my money went to the body, with none left for lenses)

King of Canada wrote in post #17296040
So many photo hobbiests are more professional shoppers than actual photographers.

that would be me. thank you. thank you.

JJD.Photography wrote in post #17296716
"Bodies come and go, lenses are forever..." A quote I've read on here more than one time

Might have been true at one time, but not any more. The current STM kit lenses are very sharp and it is worth replacing the old ones. And one excellent Canon lens after another is being replaced by an even better Mark II. For instance, the EF 100-400mm II is attracting a lot of attention, and many will be replacing the old version with the new.

Archibald wrote in post #17296965
Might have been true at one time, but not any more. The current STM kit lenses are very sharp and it is worth replacing the old ones. And one excellent Canon lens after another is being replaced by an even better Mark II. For instance, the EF 100-400mm II is attracting a lot of attention, and many will be replacing the old version with the new.

i don't understand how you comment goes against the bodies come and go, glass is forever though...

yeah the 100-400L MK II is coming out...but the 100-400L is still a good lens, and has been around for a long time...

there may be new MK II, new STM lenses...but that doesn't mean they're going to perform any better on a new body than they would on an old one...

DreDaze wrote in post #17297102
yeah the 100-400L MK II is coming out...but the 100-400L is still a good lens, and has been around for a long time...

The 7D2 is coming out ... but the 7D is still a good body ...

These days bodies and lenses are both improving, and are both being replaced as new models come out.