AMASS version 1.1 is coming soon!

MichiTimm wrote in post #17344913
I think it's great that your preferred method of browsing is available to you. I'm glad it works for you. And you could still do it that way if the mouse-over preview was an option -- just because it's there doesn't mean you'd have to use it. But without it being there, those of us who like to use don't have our preferred method of browsing available. Biggest deal in the world? No.

I can only speak for myself...
It's not a huge deal. It's a feature I used and liked and would like to see again.

When a plan to make it WELL is found, I'll do it (as an option).

Is the hover info from the first post of the thread or the latest post?
What about images?
What about quotes?
What about bbcode?
Should the popup contain OP's avatar?

All these and more need to be questioned, and the answer should not be "it was like this in (insert some other forum software here)". How I do things with AMASS is not the conventional "let's query the database for post text, strip bbcode and pick the first 100 characters", but it will be done so that it takes minimal resources, is well formatted and presented, and fast.

Personal attacks are not tolerated on this or any other thread. I do apologize if that happened. I have instructed beta team participants (who are very passionate about AMASS) to be polite and nice about feedback - else I can easily block this forum from them <-- (hint: please behave).

Yes we need feedback and suggestions, thank you. When I "question" the requests I do it merely to get some information if a feature or a need is presented only because it "it is the way I used to do it", or is there maybe some other way to make the actual need catered for without just "copying" the feature here. It is not a refusal or deny, I want to make sure if there is a better way to be had.

the flying moose wrote in post #17344931
Even if some of the issues were ISP related how would that explain the fact that the follow thread popup does not show up on any device or machine I use or that manually clicking on the "follow thread' simply refreshes the page? Or that I will have followed threads that I never clicked on, nor would I ever want to follow? Or terms already in my "search" the first time I ever clicked on it?

Those are all "broken javascript" symptoms. The AMASS javascript code you have on your browser's cache is either corrupted or the javascript engine in your browser is messed up by something.

The first thing you should do is to try some other browser on some other computer. Then ISP problems can be ruled out.

Pekka wrote in post #17344942
Is the hover info from the first post of the thread or the latest post?

The way it works in VBulletin is that the first part of the first post shows when the mouse is hovering over the title. That is precisely what I would like to see here. How much text should show in the popup? I'm not sure how to define that but at least a couple of typical sentences would be nice.

Pekka wrote in post #17344942
What about images?

What about quotes?

What about bbcode?

Only ordinary text should show up in the popup in my opinion. If there's an image or a link at the start of a post, then some sort of icon or other way of indicating that an image or link is what starts the post. If there's text beyond the image or link, I'd like to see that in the popup.

Pekka wrote in post #17344942
Should the popup contain OP's avatar?

In my opinion, no. The mouse is hovered over the thread listing and that's enough to know the title of the thread and who posted it. The popup should only be a window showing enough text to better understand the flavor of the OP in the thread.

But remember - Pekka's doing this all himself, not relying on "That's the way we've always done it" but trying to find a better way.

You're starting with a blank slate as to what a "mouse-over" would show. Perhaps this discussion of the feature should be a separate thread; what would people really like to see as a post/thread preview? Perhaps the latest post (or the first unread) would be more helpful in assessing the merits of the thread than the first post. Often the initial question someone asks is poorly worded, vague, insubstantial; subsequent questions, and answers, would give a truer indication about the topic under discussion. In other cases there's thread-drift; wouldn't you rather know that the thread's gone way off topic and is now more of a chat thread than a real photography issue?

Pekka wrote in post #17344942
When a plan to make it WELL is found, I'll do it (as an option).

Is the hover info from the first post of the thread or the latest post?
What about images?
What about quotes?
What about bbcode?
Should the popup contain OP's avatar?

All these and more need to be questioned, and the answer should not be "it was like this in (insert some other forum software here)". How I do things with AMASS is not the conventional "let's query the database for post text, strip bbcode and pick the first 100 characters", but it will be done so that it takes minimal resources, is well formatted and presented, and fast.

Fair enough. I'll have to leave that to others though, I don't know how to begin answering those questions. All I know is that it's a feature I miss, so I wanted to let you know. I was fine with how it worked, but if you don't feel it's up to your standards that's a perfectly valid reason not to have it and I accept it.

Pekka wrote in post #17344942
Personal attacks are not tolerated on this or any other thread. I do apologize if that happened. I have instructed beta team participants (who are very passionate about AMASS) to be polite and nice about feedback - else I can easily block this forum from them <-- (hint: please behave).

Oh, I don't think it's really reached the point of personal attacks - at least not that I've seen. And I understand that they're passionate about it and gave input from the beginning and as such likely feel a bit of ownership of it themselves, but when I give an opinion about something I like or dislike it feels a bit condescending to have someone explain to me why my opinion is wrong. I've seen people (I have no idea really if they were beta team folk or not) get weirdly emotional in their responses or defense or AMASS though and at times downright rude -- and I doubt if that encourages others to give feedback.

Pekka wrote in post #17344942
Yes we need feedback and suggestions, thank you. When I "question" the requests I do it merely to get some information if a feature or a need is presented only because it "it is the way I used to do it", or is there maybe some other way to make the actual need catered for without just "copying" the feature here. It is not a refusal or deny, I want to make sure if there is a better way to be had.

Fair enough. And I was not talking about you personally. As far as I'm concerned your reason for doing anything or not doing anything can be "because I want to" and that's that. It's the folk who talk down to posters who disagree with them instead of just questioning or disagreeing. But I'll go ahead and keep giving feedback and opinions when the mood strikes me -- but do know that I think you've done a remarkable job and I like the site better now. I definitely have found myself more inclined to participate.

Pekka wrote in post #17344951
Those are all "broken javascript" symptoms. The AMASS javascript code you have on your browser's cache is either corrupted or the javascript engine in your browser is messed up by something.

The first thing you should do is to try some other browser on some other computer. Then ISP problems can be ruled out.

My apologies if I wasn't clear. When I said I used my parents network, I was meaning I used a computer there, not that I brought my computer there.

jocau wrote in post #17344608
First of all, I want to say that I do not care about the mouse over text feature being gone. I never really used it, so I'm not missing it either. But I do understand that some people might find it horrible to see that the feature is gone because everyone values things differently and has different preferences. Because of that I find that your first sentence is lacking a bit of respect towards people who really do miss that one feature.

I don't see anything he has or has had to say as disrespectful. If anything, Pekka has been very understanding and patient. I must admit that I did not have much knowledge of his presence in the old software. Obviously, since the new software, he is posting more in a lot of places.

It's his baby, not yours. There's an old adage: You can please some people all of the time. You cannot please everyone all of the time. It's just fact.

I do miss the the popup. I'm with those that say that it helps me decide on whether to click on a thread. If it stays gone, I will miss that many more threads. I'm not going to get tossed about it. I will just make my opinion known and move on.

Pekka, You're doing a fine job with this! I certainly hope you've not started pulling out clumps of hair because of some of these questions. Imagine being the coder(s) for vBulletin! I for one love the changes and the room for improvement has been given as well. I certainly don't want this to end up looking like vBulletin in the end. You've made many wise decisions in creating this awesome forum! Keep up the great work and keep that chin up!

Pekka wrote in post #17344757
Please do not hijack threads for this issue. You have 20 posts about it in https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?p=17332566

What you encounter are network issues in your location. I can not share specific ISP/location and IP info in public but I can see that your browser has requested the file required for notifications, and server has sent it without errors:

(this is only one line of thousands similar from your IP):
XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX - - [21/Dec/2014:14:59:24 -0500] "POST /forum/AJAX_collection​.php HTTP/1.1" 200 646 "https://photography-on-the.net/forum/member.p​hp?m=84837" "photography-on-the.net"

So, it could be your router proxying some old file back to your browser (instead of the file requested and delivered), you ISP proxying the wrong file back to your browser, javascript prevented by some security suite (in your router perhaps).... If the culprit is in the router or ISP, then the browser, computer or who uses it does not make any difference.

The problems you encounter are not in AMASS code or server.

I can not put any more time now into your specific problem as I have 1.1. to write. Later I can do "test AJAX and Javascript" tool.

the flying moose wrote in post #17344931
I apologize. Didn't think I was hijacking anything.

So far I having the issues at my home, out with the data coming over my cellular network and my parents ISP (different than mine at home) all with the same issue.

Even if some of the issues were ISP related how would that explain the fact that the follow thread popup does not show up on any device or machine I use or that manually clicking on the "follow thread' simply refreshes the page? Or that I will have followed threads that I never clicked on, nor would I ever want to follow? Or terms already in my "search" the first time I ever clicked on it?

Thanks but this has happened on my home network, my parents network (different ISP) and using data over my cellular network. All with the same results. I did try doing a factory reset to the modem but that had no effect.

Thanks, I will try that. I have tried on using my parents network with the same results. I am going to the public library with the kids in a few days and I will try there too.

the flying moose wrote in post #17344986
My apologies if I wasn't clear. When I said I used my parents network, I was meaning I used a computer there, not that I brought my computer there.

Pekka's provided the link to the thread on your specific problem. It will facilitate troubleshooting if you confine your discussion of the problem to that single thread. As it is, you're diluting the discussion by spreading across multiple (and unrelated) threads. This particular thread is devoted to discussion of AMASS 1.1; your problem, since it basically only affects you and can't be replicated by others using the same software and hardware you are using, isn't something that AMASS 1.1 can address.

Strontium wrote in post #17344993
I don't see anything he has or has had to say as disrespectful. If anything, Pekka has been very understanding and patient. I must admit that I did not have much knowledge of his presence in the old software. Obviously, since the new software, he is posting more in a lot of places.

It's his baby, not yours. There's an old adage: You can please some people all of the time. You cannot please everyone all of the time. It's just fact.

I do miss the the popup. I'm with those that say that it helps me decide on whether to click on a thread. If it stays gone, I will miss that many more threads. I'm not going to get tossed about it. I will just make my opinion known and move on.

That comment wasn't about anything Pekka has said. In fact, he has been a lot more gracious that I could even be. And I work with teams rolling out new versions of software all the time.


It was a reply to this post

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #17344055
Remarkable how you conclude that "POTN has taken a definite step backwards" simply because you are missing one feature. Yes, one. Because if you had paid some attention and actually read Pekka's opening post in this very thread, you would know that "mark forum as read" will be implemented in the next version. It's always so much better to inform yourself of latest developments than to just lament.

As to the mouse over text, there are an awful lot of forums out there without it. Just because it was on old POTN, doesn't mean it needs to be on new POTN as well. It's not exactly a forum feature written in stone. It's handy only where thread titles are too general, but even then you would often not find anything conclusive in those first two lines, because people generally need a few lines to introduce their problem or question. I know I do. So in many instances you had to open the thread anyway. Also, if you go by just the first two lines, you will be missing what may be the really interesting bit of a post somewhere down the middle or at the very end for instance. Not saying that it wasn't handy at times, but I can do without it. And if you think about it, it's a pretty lazy way of browsing the forum.

WaltA wrote in post #17345019
That comment wasn't about anything Pekka has said. In fact, he has been a lot more gracious that I could even be. And I work with teams rolling out new versions of software all the time.


It was a reply to this post

You are correct. Thanks for that. I was reading this on the Note 2 and didn't bother reading his quoted text.

WaltA wrote in post #17345019
It was a reply to this post

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #17344055
Remarkable how you conclude that "POTN has taken a definite step backwards" simply because you are missing one feature. Yes, one. Because if you had paid some attention and actually read Pekka's opening post in this very thread, you would know that "mark forum as read" will be implemented in the next version. It's always so much better to inform yourself of latest developments than to just lament.

As to the mouse over text, there are an awful lot of forums out there without it. Just because it was on old POTN, doesn't mean it needs to be on new POTN as well. It's not exactly a forum feature written in stone. It's handy only where thread titles are too general, but even then you would often not find anything conclusive in those first two lines, because people generally need a few lines to introduce their problem or question. I know I do. So in many instances you had to open the thread anyway. Also, if you go by just the first two lines, you will be missing what may be the really interesting bit of a post somewhere down the middle or at the very end for instance. Not saying that it wasn't handy at times, but I can do without it. And if you think about it, it's a pretty lazy way of browsing the forum.

I responded to somebody who said that "POTN has taken a definite step backwards" based on two missing features, one of which Pekka is working on and will be in the next version. If you are going to bash AMASS then be sure to have your facts straight. That is all I was trying to say.

In the second part of my post I was simply stating my opinion on the mouse over text, is all.

Understood.

But as members of BAT - helping Pekka respond to the users with problems and suggestions - it seems like the responses should be more of an "information gathering" nature rather than telling people they are lazy or that their suggestion is dumb.

Asking people to input their suggestions for the AMASS 1.1 then arguing with them about the validity or the usefulness of their suggestion is a bit counter-productive, in my opinion.

I don't mean to pick on your post - in particular. It seems to be a trend. Hopefully some constructive criticism from someone who does this for a living.

MichiTimm wrote in post #17344913
I can only speak for myself...
It's not a huge deal. It's a feature I used and liked and would like to see again.

I feel like on one hand people are being encouraged to make suggestions and give feedback and constructive criticism on the changes and yet when someone does it frequently ends up with someone (or many someones) explaining it away as not being important, either by telling them the other ways of doing the same thing are better or you'll get used to it, complaining about their tone/word choice,etc. When I brought it up I didn't expect an instant decision to bring it back. But I also don't expect to be ridiculed for giving feedback/making suggestions.

So is that the prevailing opinion -- that until we pay for the forum our opinions aren't wanted? Because I was under the impression that the powers that be wanted to know how we felt about all this.

My apologies if my comment came across as trying to ridicule anyone's opinion or suggestions, and certainly not implying opinions/suggestions are in any way unwelcome. It was a tongue in cheek remark about people's expectations/resistanc​e to change. Having only read the last several pages, it appeared to me the "mouse over" was becoming a major sticking point, in what is a brand new roll-out, that is already looking at upgrades/changes/addit​ions. Frankly I'm amazed at how Pekka et al put this together in the first place, let alone find time to breathe between additional suggestions/requests for changes.

WaltA wrote in post #17345019
That comment wasn't about anything Pekka has said. In fact, he has been a lot more gracious that I could even be. And I work with teams rolling out new versions of software all the time.

It was a reply to this post
...

Thanks for backing me up. And indeed, I do agree that Pekka has been very reasonable so far.

Strontium wrote in post #17345023
You are correct. Thanks for that. I was reading this on the Note 2 and didn't bother reading his quoted text.

And to be complete: I reacted to Levina's post after she responded to artyman's post.

MichiTimm wrote in post #17344913
I think it's great that your preferred method of browsing is available to you. I'm glad it works for you. And you could still do it that way if the mouse-over preview was an option -- just because it's there doesn't mean you'd have to use it. But without it being there, those of us who like to use don't have our preferred method of browsing available. Biggest deal in the world? No.

I can only speak for myself...
It's not a huge deal. It's a feature I used and liked and would like to see again.

I feel like on one hand people are being encouraged to make suggestions and give feedback and constructive criticism on the changes and yet when someone does it frequently ends up with someone (or many someones) explaining it away as not being important, either by telling them the other ways of doing the same thing are better or you'll get used to it, complaining about their tone/word choice,etc. When I brought it up I didn't expect an instant decision to bring it back. But I also don't expect to be ridiculed for giving feedback/making suggestions.

So is that the prevailing opinion -- that until we pay for the forum our opinions aren't wanted? Because I was under the impression that the powers that be wanted to know how we felt about all this.

I totally agree with you on the parts in bold.

WaltA wrote in post #17345053
Understood.

But as members of BAT - helping Pekka respond to the users with problems and suggestions - it seems like the responses should be more of an "information gathering" nature rather than telling people they are lazy or that their suggestion is dumb.

Asking people to input their suggestions for the AMASS 1.1 then arguing with them about the validity or the usefulness of their suggestion is a bit counter-productive, in my opinion.

I don't mean to pick on your post - in particular. It seems to be a trend. Hopefully some constructive criticism from someone who does this for a living.

And again: I totally agree with your post.