A Hawk: What would happen if.....

This guy was 5 seconds from flight. I stuck the camera out the window and fired. I never looked at the settings until days later.

I am pleased with the shots in general but can't help but wonder what would have improved if :

I had I lowered the ISO on such a fine day ?

The high ISO caused the ridiculously high shutter speed, yes ? What gets lost with too fast of a SS ? Is there such a thing as too fast a shutter speed when shooting birds ? What are the trade offs ?

I've been advised to stop down to f 7.1 which I will in the future....... More still on a empty sky background ? What settings do you think would have been optimum and for what reasons ?

Thanks in advance !

Ted

70D / !00-400 5.6 V1 / 390 MM / ISO 800 / 1/8000 / f 5.6 / Shot in AV mode

First photo looks like the AF was not finished. ISO 800 on the 70D should not degrade the shot by much. You are correct the high ISO caused the high shutter speed. You shouldn't lose anything with high shutter speeds. Too slow of a SS is usually a problem with birds.

1/1000 SS usually works quite well with birds. At f/8 that would get you an ISO of 200 which would have given you a cleaner image of the bird. The sky probably would have looked a little better also.

Well if these are just quick shots, I think you did a pretty good job.

Now, after the fact, you can critique what may have caused a less than optimal capture. I am going to assume you were in aperture priority mode, though I don't have any reason to, its just what I use most.

ISO: 800
This could have easily been knocked down to 400 or even possibly 200. This would have reduced the noise in the sky and shadows.

Shutter speed: 1/8000
We know you could have used a lower ISO because of such a fast shutter speed. With a stationary object and an IS lens you could have easily gotten away with 1/400.

F/5.6
This is wide open for that lens at that focal length and not the sharpest. You probably would have been better around F/8

2n10 wrote in post #17332998
First photo looks like the AF was not finished. ISO 800 on the 70D should not degrade the shot by much. You are correct the high ISO caused the high shutter speed. You shouldn't lose anything with high shutter speeds. Too slow of a SS is usually a problem with birds.

1/1000 SS usually works quite well with birds. At f/8 that would get you an ISO of 200 which would have given you a cleaner image of the bird. The sky probably would have looked a little better also.

Thanks for confirmation John. Merry Christmas !

banjoguns wrote in post #17333015
Well if these are just quick shots, I think you did a pretty good job.

Now, after the fact, you can critique what may have caused a less than optimal capture. I am going to assume you were in aperture priority mode, though I don't have any reason to, its just what I use most.

ISO: 800
This could have easily been knocked down to 400 or even possibly 200. This would have reduced the noise in the sky and shadows.

Shutter speed: 1/8000
We know you could have used a lower ISO because of such a fast shutter speed. With a stationary object and an IS lens you could have easily gotten away with 1/400.

F/5.6
This is wide open for that lens at that focal length and not the sharpest. You probably would have been better around F/8

Yes, I was in AV mode and the action was pretty quick, although looking at the next two pix in this series I see I had the time and presence of mind to stop down to 7.1 which brought my SS to 5000 & 3200 respectively. Both still at ISO 800 though.

Thanks for your input, comments and confirmation. I appreciate it !

Ted

That full flight shot and the 2nd still shot are very good images.

Each lens is different. Experiment on still birds to find the sharpest aperture for your particular lens.

with a hawk, generally 1/1600th is fast enough even for flight stuff but 1/2500th is definitely fast enough.
Ive done quite a few at 1/1000th.

Slower SS will allow you to run a deeper aperture and lower ISO.
Looks like youre learning nicely though.
Congrats.

jhayesvw wrote in post #17334988
That full flight shot and the 2nd still shot are very good images.

Each lens is different. Experiment on still birds to find the sharpest aperture for your particular lens.

with a hawk, generally 1/1600th is fast enough even for flight stuff but 1/2500th is definitely fast enough.
Ive done quite a few at 1/1000th.

Slower SS will allow you to run a deeper aperture and lower ISO.
Looks like youre learning nicely though.
Congrats.

Thanks for the critique and buckerup Jeremy, much appreciated.

Is it too simplistic or incorrect to be thinking of it as this:

If my SS is too fast with the aperture wide open, I'm letting in too much light but for not long enough to burn the fine details onto the sensor ? Maybe it has no bearing ?

for the best image quality, generally the first goal is to lower ISO and let the other settings fall where they may.

with most of today's cameras, ISO 200 is really not much different than 100. Depending on the body 400 might be an almost unnoticeable difference so long as exposure is correct.

After that, stopping down your lens 1-3 stops will provide better image quality, but don't go higher or you start to face diffraction. Every lens has a different sweet spot.

once you have considered those two things let shutter speed set the exposure. If you are concerned about subject or camera movement use a faster shutter speed and sacrifice quality with higher ISO or going outside of your lens' sweetspot.

this is what i would have done (i'm not a birder)

your settings = 70D / !00-400 5.6 V1 / 390 MM / ISO 800 / 1/8000 / f 5.6

my adjustments = 70D / !00-400 5.6 V1 / 390 MM / ISO 200 / 1/1000 / f/8


aperture closed down a stop to get closer to the sweet spot.
ISO down two stops to give more DR and reduce sensor noise … noise destroys detail
SS down 3 stops to match other adjustments and since your subject is sitting still

I always shoot in manual mode Shutter speed 1/1600, f/6.3 and then adjust ISO depending on lighting.

Thanks for the baseline settings you guys.
I'll try some more experimentation and definitely stop down in a quest to find that sweet spot.

I was with a well known bird photographer this fall who also advised shooting in Manual Mode.
With a wry smile, he repeated more than once those couple of days....

"....crank up your ISO's to be sure your SS is up.
All of today's cameras can handle at least 800.
I've never been asked to give back SS"

Great work.

Thanks Mahn, I appreciate you taking the time to comment.
Seems by your tally you are a man of few words ! makes me appreciate it all the more.

~Merry Christmas ~

Ted

The one thing I enjoy about wildlife photography is experimenting and learning from it. It's good to get advice from other photographers but keep in mind each situation is going to be different and requires different settings. With enough practice you can put yourself in the situation where you don't have to think you just react because you've been in a similar situation and know what worked and most importantly what didn't work.

I have walk around settings (1/1600" @ f/5.6, ISO 400, manual mode) I start with and adjust accordingly to what's in front of me. I will adjust any one of my settings depending on what I'm photographing and the available light. I will sometimes adjust all of them to try different things if the subject is accommodating.

Duane N wrote in post #17340379
The one thing I enjoy about wildlife photography is experimenting and learning from it. It's good to get advice from other photographers but keep in mind each situation is going to be different and requires different settings. With enough practice you can put yourself in the situation where you don't have to think you just react because you've been in a similar situation and know what worked and most importantly what didn't work.

I have walk around settings (1/1600" @ f/5.6, ISO 400, manual mode) I start with and adjust accordingly to what's in front of me. I will adjust any one of my settings depending on what I'm photographing and the available light. I will sometimes adjust all of them to try different things if the subject is accommodating.

Your first point is very well said, if we are not learning/enjoying then what is the point!

May base setting is not dissimilar to yours in principle. I do use M Mode but the main difference is that I use auto ISO as this means that I don't have to think too much about exposure (I don't do thinking very well!). My shutter speed is next to my thumb and my aperture is next to my index finger - the camera does the rest! Luckily I can adjust exposure compensation (in Manual mode) very quickly on my camera which is rather handy for subjects like flying birds/aircraft.