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Thread started 15 Dec 2014 (Monday) 19:15
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Sony sensors and Canon

 
hollis_f
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Dec 18, 2014 02:52 |  #16

vipergts831 wrote in post #17338868 (external link)
Agreed! That's why I never went nikon. Prefer canon lenses :)

But how do you cope with all those people complaining about how poor your images are? Or are you suggesting that they can't actually see any problems, possibly because there aren't any?


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peteg1
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Dec 18, 2014 05:39 as a reply to  @ post 17338786 |  #17

Canon doesn't go out of their way to let you know what sensor they are using if it's not Canon sensors.


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vipergts831
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Dec 18, 2014 05:45 |  #18

hollis_f wrote in post #17339134 (external link)
But how do you cope with all those people complaining about how poor your images are? Or are you suggesting that they can't actually see any problems, possibly because there aren't any?

I think you should poll all those people and let me know the findings :)


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Dec 18, 2014 05:52 |  #19

Theres a lot of talk on the forums about dynamic range and the like when it comes to canon sensors but personally I dont really notice any issues in that regard and the files my 5D3 produces are perfectly fine (for me).

What I do notice though is that the 36MP sensor in my A7R has amazing shadow recovery. This is ideal for me for landscapes where its common to have a large delta in exposure between the sky and the foreground if shooting sunsets or sunrises. Even with GND filters its often not enough to balance the light and I need to resort to raising shadows in post slightly. On my A7R this does not worry me one bit but doing the same thing on my 5D3 results in noisy shadows and sometimes with purple banding in the shadows. For this reason alone I really want a sony sensor in a canon body (or a canon sensor with similar capabilities) so that I can stop having two bodies and do everything with one body. Whether its 36MP, 46MP or 50MP I dont really care. 36MP is plenty for what I do

EDIT - or is what I have just described dynamic range?


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hollis_f
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Dec 18, 2014 06:17 |  #20

vipergts831 wrote in post #17339236 (external link)
I think you should poll all those people and let me know the findings :)

I have.

Out of the thousands of people who've looked at my images the number who have said - "Very good, what a shame you didn't use a Nikon" is zero.


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vipergts831
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Dec 18, 2014 06:24 |  #21

hollis_f wrote in post #17339269 (external link)
I have.

Out of the thousands of people who've looked at my images the number who have said - "Very good, what a shame you didn't use a Nikon" is zero.

Excellent study on your behalf. As you are free to do with your money as you wish so am I. We all have preferences for our own subjective likes. For me it is Canon Lenses.


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David ­ Arbogast
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Dec 18, 2014 06:29 as a reply to  @ Eddie's post |  #22

Yeah, that extra latitude you get on the Sony is because of more dynamic range. ;) There is more clean recoverable details in the shadows with the Sony sensor.

If Canon builds their own 50MP sensor, it likely won't match the DR in a Sony sensor. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want it though. :)


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Eddie
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Dec 18, 2014 06:30 |  #23

David Arbogast wrote in post #17339289 (external link)
Yeah, that extra latitude you get on the Sony is because of more dynamic range. ;) There is more clean recoverable details in the shadows with the Sony sensor.

If Canon builds their own 50MP sensor, it likely won't match the DR in a Sony sensor. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want it though. :)

:oops: Thanks David. I always read the threads on dynamic range and never really understood what it was all about - at the same time as loving the extra dynamic range in my Sony! Thanks for clarifying.


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vipergts831
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Dec 18, 2014 06:30 |  #24

David Arbogast wrote in post #17339289 (external link)
Yeah, that extra latitude you get on the Sony is because of more dynamic range. ;) There is more clean recoverable details in the shadows with the Sony sensor.

If Canon builds their own 50MP sensor, it likely won't match the DR in a Sony sensor. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want it though. :)

Im an eternal hopeful that Canon will eventually match it...hope...hope...:-P


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Dec 18, 2014 06:31 |  #25

vipergts831 wrote in post #17339293 (external link)
Im an eternal hopeful that Canon will eventually match it...hope...hope...:-P

eiher that or Nikon release a D810B with EF mount :-)


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vipergts831
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Dec 18, 2014 06:58 |  #26

xpfloyd wrote in post #17339296 (external link)
eiher that or Nikon release a D810B with EF mount :-)

The stuff sweet dreams are made of :)


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Shadowblade
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Dec 18, 2014 07:15 |  #27

xpfloyd wrote in post #17339241 (external link)
Theres a lot of talk on the forums about dynamic range and the like when it comes to canon sensors but personally I dont really notice any issues in that regard and the files my 5D3 produces are perfectly fine (for me).

What I do notice though is that the 36MP sensor in my A7R has amazing shadow recovery. This is ideal for me for landscapes where its common to have a large delta in exposure between the sky and the foreground if shooting sunsets or sunrises. Even with GND filters its often not enough to balance the light and I need to resort to raising shadows in post slightly. On my A7R this does not worry me one bit but doing the same thing on my 5D3 results in noisy shadows and sometimes with purple banding in the shadows. For this reason alone I really want a sony sensor in a canon body (or a canon sensor with similar capabilities) so that I can stop having two bodies and do everything with one body. Whether its 36MP, 46MP or 50MP I dont really care. 36MP is plenty for what I do

EDIT - or is what I have just described dynamic range?

That's dynamic range exactly.

Those who don't shoot landscapes and high-contrast subjects and don't have problems with Canon sensors will often say, 'expose properly' or 'expose to the right'. But, when shooting a landscape as you described, you'll often be exposing to the left and right at the same time, since the dynamic range is so great. Three extra stops of usable DR means the difference between a 3-stop GND and no filter, or a 6-stop GND and a 3-stop GND, and can make all the difference when shooting something that doesn't have a straight horizon.




  
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Shadowblade
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Dec 18, 2014 07:16 |  #28

xpfloyd wrote in post #17339296 (external link)
eiher that or Nikon release a D810B with EF mount :-)

Or just a PC-E 24 and PC-E 17 that match the Canon TS-E lenses.

An updated Nikon 200-400 with inbuilt TC would be nice, too...




  
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Dec 19, 2014 05:24 |  #29

xpfloyd wrote in post #17339291 (external link)
:oops: Thanks David. I always read the threads on dynamic range and never really understood what it was all about - at the same time as loving the extra dynamic range in my Sony! Thanks for clarifying.

Dynamic range is essentially the ratio of the largest to smallest intensity of reading (brightness/sound etc.) that a medium can reliably record.

If you're old enough to remember tape cassettes, then you'll probably recall how loud sections of music could be OK, but on quiet sections you could often hear a hissing sound - basically, noise.

Like any recording medium, there's a limit to how loud/bright a signal can be recorded, and there will also be a lower limit where the quietest/darkest elements are now lower than the noise in the system.

If you were to take a quiet portion of music from a tape and boosted its volume level, it would likely sound pretty bad, because the amount of noise would be significant in relation to the music (poor signal to noise ratio). That's exactly what you're experiencing when you boost the brightness level of shadows in an image from a sensor. Conversely, brighter pixels have a good signal to noise ratio, so the noise is effectively drowned out by the signal (just like loud sections of music on a tape).

The reason why you're getting great shadow recovery on the A7R is because the sensor can record a large ratio of intensities (with acceptable noise). If I understand correctly, a Canon sensor can probably do that too, but part of the electronics used to read the data off the sensor adds some noise, which then drowns out the darkest ("quietest") detail; thus meaning you can't boost the shadows without seeing problems. Worse, the noise isn't entirely random (it exhibits itself as a fixed pattern of bands); which means it's that much more noticeable and objectionable.

For shooters that can control their lighting (e.g. studio), large boosts to the shadow detail in post should be rare, so they'd probably wonder what all the fuss was about. For landscape shooters, it's a pain.


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Eddie
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Dec 19, 2014 05:29 |  #30

sploo wrote in post #17341025 (external link)
Dynamic range is essentially the ratio of the largest to smallest intensity of reading (brightness/sound etc.) that a medium can reliably record.

If you're old enough to remember tape cassettes, then you'll probably recall how loud sections of music could be OK, but on quiet sections you could often hear a hissing sound - basically, noise.

Like any recording medium, there's a limit to how loud/bright a signal can be recorded, and there will also be a lower limit where the quietest/darkest elements are now lower than the noise in the system.

If you were to take a quiet portion of music from a tape and boosted its volume level, it would likely sound pretty bad, because the amount of noise would be significant in relation to the music (poor signal to noise ratio). That's exactly what you're experiencing when you boost the brightness level of shadows in an image from a sensor. Conversely, brighter pixels have a good signal to noise ratio, so the noise is effectively drowned out by the signal (just like loud sections of music on a tape).

The reason why you're getting great shadow recovery on the A7R is because the sensor can record a large ratio of intensities (with acceptable noise). If I understand correctly, a Canon sensor can probably do that too, but part of the electronics used to read the data off the sensor adds some noise, which then drowns out the darkest ("quietest") detail; thus meaning you can't boost the shadows without seeing problems. Worse, the noise isn't entirely random (it exhibits itself as a fixed pattern of bands); which means it's that much more noticeable and objectionable.

For shooters that can control their lighting (e.g. studio), large boosts to the shadow detail in post should be rare, so they'd probably wonder what all the fuss was about. For landscape shooters, it's a pain.

Excellent info, thankyou (and I remember cassettes well :) )


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