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Thread started 15 Dec 2014 (Monday) 20:16
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Canon 400mm DO II first impressions

 
buddy4344
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Dec 22, 2014 09:02 |  #31

cfibanez wrote in post #17345630 (external link)
Thanks for your reply. This will be my first time in a safari situation. Good to know that my thoughts were not too far off. I guess the 1.4x III extender and the 400 DO II attached on the 7D2 would also be ideal for birding.

My info is particularly true if you are going to any private reserves where guides are allowed to track off road. Also for Chobe NP if shooting from a boat. Yes, this combo will be amazing for bird work. A few tips I always give the groups that travel with me:
1) Use at setting higher than you think you will need on shutter speed. Trust that ISO can handle it (esp. if you expose to right).
2) no the buttons/settings on the camera. You need to adjust focus groupings, focus point location, f-stop, ISO and shutter speed without moving your eye from camera.
3) IMPORTANT - you will have a tendency to 'fill the frame'. don't zoom in as close as you can or you'll clip a tail, wing, etc. - especially if the subject takes-off/moves and also want give room in your composition to move into.
4) don't forget to shoot the landscapes to capture the 'sense of place'.


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Gear: Canon 1Dx MkII, 7D MkII, Canon Lenses: 100 macro, 100-400 Ver.IIL IS, 24-105L IS, Canon 17-40, Canon 1.4x TCon, Rokinon 14mm. Kenko extension tubes, Kenko 1.4x pro TCon.and Kiboko 30L and 22L+

  
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cfibanez
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Dec 22, 2014 23:12 as a reply to  @ buddy4344's post |  #32

Thanks! One thing I liked about the 100-400 (zooms in general for that matter) is the ability to find the (darn) bird at 100mm and then zoom in quickly to 400mm with the push-pull zoom (hated by many, but loved by me and a few others).

I wonder, with a 400mm prime like the 400mmDO II, particualrly if atached to the 1.4x extender, how I am going to find the little creature among the thick folliage. I fear precious time will be wasted hunting for the target at these long focal lengths.


5D4 | 7D2 | 11-24/4.0 L | 16-35/2.8 L III | 24/1.4 L II | 24-105/4.0 L IS | 40/2.8 STM | 85/1.2 L II | 100/2.8 L macro IS | 70-200/2.8 L IS II | 100-400 L IS II | 400/4.0 DO L II | 580EXII | EF 1.4x III | Gitzo monopod GM2541 | Gitzo tripod GT2541 | Really Right Stuff ball head & plates | B+W & Singh-Ray filters

  
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MedicineMan4040
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Post edited over 3 years ago by MedicineMan4040.
     
Dec 23, 2014 00:59 |  #33

^but in the time (though incredibly short with the push-pull-zoom e.g. 1st gen 100-400) it takes to push out to 400mm the target could be gone. I was told by a friend to practice practice practice at home swinging quickly onto target even if its just a golf ball in the backyard; over and over and over (backyard birds even better) to intimately know where your focus point will land.

We did safari adjacent to the kruger this past april (shindzella) who was licensed to go off-road; never did i need anything over 300mm but daily I enjoyed/needed the F2.8 because a lot of our opportunities were in dawn pre-light, dusk and beyond using the guides big torch to light up animals.

I can understand the allure of the 100-400 range especially when animals present up close and personal to the land rover...my answer to that was two bodies...at the time the 300 2.8 was on the 5Diii with or without a cTC1.4 depending on light and a sony a6000 with the 70-200 e-mount. That combo worked well for me and a surprising no. of BIFs with the sony. I had a 6D in camp (used for the s.Africa Milky Way) and as back up body.

As much as the 100-400 ii + 5Diii and 400DOii + 7Dii sounds fantastic I'll be dreaming of the 100-400ii on the 5Diii but with a 500 F4 on the 7Dii :)

I'm a week and a half into 400DOii ownership and so far am enamored with image quality and every time I pick it up I'm loving the lack of weight compared to even the 300 2.8. That said we're off in a couple of days for some warmth and some paths to walk hoping for birds of opportunity. The 5diii will have the 300 2.8 attached and the 7Dii the 400DOii, thinking early morning walks with much less light within the trees will appreciate the higher ISOs afforded by the full frame in conjunction with the gained stop of light; afternoons with hopefully full Sun and I can enjoy less need for ISO and enjoy the extra 100mm and crop factor

But what do I know=noob still in training :)

p.s. forgot to mention on the s.Africa trip AFTER safari we just tooled around the country for a couple of weeks in a rental and I used a Tam 150-600 for some more distant bird captures.


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umphotography
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Dec 23, 2014 09:26 |  #34

As good as these bodies are now with the Higher iSO I just think that this 400 Do and a TC is a smart smart combo for birding, especially on a 7D2

Im sooooo close to hitting the BUY button. Gonna rent it and be absolutely sure. Its a lot of $$


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Sounds
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Apr 28, 2018 13:17 |  #35

I have a Q,I'm sort of unsure where to post exactly,but I guess it fits within first impressions.....I am lucky enough to own the mark ii 400DO. I adore it's handling ,I scrubble about on the ground quite a bit,having a lens that handles so well is a joy. again another really interesting read!!

Guys owners of the 400 mark II ............... do you process your images with regards to NR in particular any differently because of the difractive optics,rather than a more conventional type of super tele?? I use DPP for the raw convert to tiff then into PSCC. i've only been using PS since chistmas last,as PC upgrade was also needed. I'm certainly a beginner with regards to post but as ever curious as to what others using the same tool have found

many thanks

stu




  
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MedicineMan4040
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Apr 28, 2018 14:16 |  #36

Sounds wrote in post #18615358 (external link)
I have a Q,I'm sort of unsure where to post exactly,but I guess it fits within first impressions.....I am lucky enough to own the mark ii 400DO. I adore it's handling ,I scrubble about on the ground quite a bit,having a lens that handles so well is a joy. again another really interesting read!!

Guys owners of the 400 mark II ............... do you process your images with regards to NR in particular any differently because of the difractive optics,rather than a more conventional type of super tele?? I use DPP for the raw convert to tiff then into PSCC. i've only been using PS since chistmas last,as PC upgrade was also needed. I'm certainly a beginner with regards to post but as ever curious as to what others using the same tool have found

many thanks

stu

I just load into ACR then PScc.


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Sounds
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Apr 29, 2018 04:56 |  #37

MedicineMan4040 wrote in post #18615388 (external link)
I just load into ACR then PScc.

Hey Robert,how ya doin?:-)

Mate I so oft shoot at high ISOs it's part of the UK's dull winters Ii suppose,i'm noticing slightly different noise to with my 300f2.8is also the specular hilights when shooting back lit seem more pronounced. I think these are both summountable. I don't yet have anyplugins running for NR i'm too new to PSCC as of yet,to be adding much to my learning curve,so use the base NR reduction of DPP and PS. I think it's the colour noise, Robert, that is different. I have underexposed a few of late,which is due almost always to me searching for more SS when probably I have stopped due to light being so poor. But one can learn much from one's mistakes if one is open to learn. although i'll delete most of these said frames I felt it worth asking if others maybe have noticed this and make any adjustments to their post workflow.

I'd imagine programmes like neate image would handle such things fairly automatically,but as I largely use sliders and set chroma or luminance NR myself,it seemed worth investigating;-)a

take care

stu




  
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Apr 29, 2018 05:18 as a reply to  @ Sounds's post |  #38

NeatImage is in my toolbox hear too.
I've read about the spec highlights when backlit...I've just never noticed it.
Really I just skim the knowledge bases in the photographic enchiridion.
I will tell you Stu my most often used denoise routing is NIK because for some reason
it is super easy now for PScc to select 'subject', then I invert that selection, then run
the NIK denoise plugin on the background.....yep I'll have to zoom in a deselect some small
bits and parts before inverting and running NIK.

When noise is worse/up a notch I'll use Topaz Denoise on a selection and the selection on a
separate layer.

I use NeatImage lastly, when in my mind it's more complicated routine.

For the highlights peculiar to this lens, well I'll just have to google for examples. Maybe in post
I'm not mentally aware of labeling those areas as such, but manipulating them anyway with
a clone stamp maybe?

Regardless of any short comings with this lens it is the only Canon I've kept, well big Canon I should say.
We still have an EF-S collection Poof uses with M5 at work and I keep the EF 8-15mm, nothing like that
in the Sony world yet, but Laowa has announced a 10-18mm for end of year.

Sorry for droning on......


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Apr 29, 2018 05:31 |  #39

A devil for me to get two Bluebirds in focus :(
I was hoping F10 would have been enough. It wasn't. I
couldn't change my position relative to them either. Maybe
someday.

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Sounds
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Post edited 3 months ago by Sounds.
     
Apr 29, 2018 15:54 |  #40

MedicineMan4040 wrote in post #18615732 (external link)
NeatImage is in my toolbox hear too.
I've read about the spec highlights when backlit...I've just never noticed it.
Really I just skim the knowledge bases in the photographic enchiridion.
I will tell you Stu my most often used denoise routing is NIK because for some reason
it is super easy now for PScc to select 'subject', then I invert that selection, then run
the NIK denoise plugin on the background.....yep I'll have to zoom in a deselect some small
bits and parts before inverting and running NIK.

When noise is worse/up a notch I'll use Topaz Denoise on a selection and the selection on a
separate layer.

I use NeatImage lastly, when in my mind it's more complicated routine.

For the highlights peculiar to this lens, well I'll just have to google for examples. Maybe in post
I'm not mentally aware of labeling those areas as such, but manipulating them anyway with
a clone stamp maybe?

Regardless of any short comings with this lens it is the only Canon I've kept, well big Canon I should say.
We still have an EF-S collection Poof uses with M5 at work and I keep the EF 8-15mm, nothing like that
in the Sony world yet, but Laowa has announced a 10-18mm for end of year.

Sorry for droning on......

Buddy not droning on every word was appreciated:-) especially the words on NR,it's sort of lovely that I also understood it all as I say PS is very very new to me

Regarding back lit with a 400DO here's one for you,i've left the hilights in place,no crop full frame. Robert i'm drawn to back lit,I adore making images this way,it's part of my creative madness I suspect,something primal that I don't need to ponder,just be better at executiing.

This guy is coming straight to me,and it is probably my first ever image with water and a hare together.The hilights at the base of frame are a puddle in a tractor rut. Normally one would crop,but in this case i'll keep because of the significance of the water to me personally. It's also a bit nerve racking,because behind me there is a massive tractor heading up the track which i'm lying in,doing my best" i'm a fallen tree impression;-)a...head to toe camo",and I really don't know whether the driver will see me. Ha ha the things we do for our art mate:lol:


I suppose this really is asking alot of any lens frankly,the sun is too high in the sky,but I had to try for this. It does illustrate what i'm talking about though I think leastways with regards to these specular hilights

Love the blue birds,with shots like this I too struggle:
Robert,our brown hares are courting now,it's said to be at it's peak in March(hence the expression used here mad as a march hare). The males follow(guard their chosen lady and try to mate,she if not ready will turn and stand up and they litterally box,as in fighting boxing. I don't know whether any of your largomorphs do this,hence me labouring. i've been trying to get a good set of boxing images now for maybe two or three years,but getting them both on the same focal plane is so hard. So I appeciate the struggle with your blue birds maybe more than most.

That's the joy of this isn't it,how ever hard one tries how ever much one gets of a given subject. there is always something more to find and make a stunning image of,or leastways try to make a stunning image of.

haha now who's droning on ,here's your hare:lol:

IMAGE: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/982/40887548615_0547192df0_o.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/25i6​nGK  (external link) _70F7898 incoming backlit SM (external link) by Stuart Philpott (external link), on Flickr

take care and thankyou:-)

stu

ps canon 1div 400do is ii 1.4 extiii 1/3200 f8 iso 2000



  
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MedicineMan4040
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Apr 29, 2018 19:20 as a reply to  @ Sounds's post |  #41

Enjoyed the hare drone!
OK, you're saying in the pic above there is something that you just don't quite like?
I CANNOT see it....at all.
I'm seeing the pause of the hare maybe spotting you for some intrigue with me the viewer
asking what does he see, the incredible detail throughout the hare,
the awesome bokeh balls in the water, and even small I can readily see the eyes are sharp.

Now that bokeh ball beside his (her) right leg, is that a specular highlight? If so I without knowing what it
was might have cloned it out...but I had to look for it in league with this conversation concerning exactly what
a specular highlight actually is. And if those 'balls' are specular hightlights, color me the crazy one, but I actually
like them.

OK, this might not have anything to do with this conversation; then again it just might. Look at this image Stu-
https://www.flickr.com …/album-72157692054125621/ (external link)
Won't embed here since not a DOii. See the what I call solar flare-circle? Some would absolutely hate that. I love
it and don't see it as a negative of the Laowa 15/2 at all.

Vanilla or chocolate :)
p.s. I'm going with strawberry today.


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Post edited 3 months ago by MedicineMan4040.
     
Apr 29, 2018 19:20 |  #42

Dialing in the new firmware on the Metabones. Now up to 0.58 and works just fine with my
Sony. 0.57 did as well.
I don't like the crunchy noise in the Chickadee's underbelly but that is a side effect of the denoising
routine induce by the Jimmie McIntyre resizing/denoising panel. I need to dial it down I think.

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Sounds
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Apr 30, 2018 03:42 |  #43

MedicineMan4040 wrote in post #18616202 (external link)
Enjoyed the hare drone!
OK, you're saying in the pic above there is something that you just don't quite like?
I CANNOT see it....at all.
I'm seeing the pause of the hare maybe spotting you for some intrigue with me the viewer
asking what does he see, the incredible detail throughout the hare,
the awesome bokeh balls in the water, and even small I can readily see the eyes are sharp.

Now that bokeh ball beside his (her) right leg, is that a specular highlight? If so I without knowing what it
was might have cloned it out...but I had to look for it in league with this conversation concerning exactly what
a specular highlight actually is. And if those 'balls' are specular hightlights, color me the crazy one, but I actually
like them.

OK, this might not have anything to do with this conversation; then again it just might. Look at this image Stu-
https://www.flickr.com …/album-72157692054125621/ (external link)
Won't embed here since not a DOii. See the what I call solar flare-circle? Some would absolutely hate that. I love
it and don't see it as a negative of the Laowa 15/2 at all.

Vanilla or chocolate :)
p.s. I'm going with strawberry today.

As well as learning a bit,with you bro, and having fascinating convo's............you also make me smile ALOT ...........I'm a mint man my self:lol:

Beyond the specualr hilight thang what you have articulated is what the image says to me aswell,the pause is actually scent,not me. Being super picky I wish the hare was closer,so what is going on in the eyes was more visible to my viewer,it's stunning how the light is working through those eyes,but the hare is a bit small in frame for my viewer to really see,which is a shame for me

Robert,love the solar flare,creatively it's right up my street. I'm learning slow and hard,I suppose I try to be dispassionate ( hard i'm the exact opposite about my wildlife) about my images, try to envisage what my viewer might see yet at the same time,I want to present my creative side what ever that means. So I feel that most image makers would present the above frame and crop the water at the foot,plus do something about the SH ( spec hi) you have mentioned, also, plausibly, that lower one. Buddy I hope I'm using the right term for SH. seems we are both talking about the same thing at the very least:-)

I feel they are a bit overpowering Robert but they also add something in a way. That something is what you see and has sort of left me arguing with myself,because I'm of a similar crazy it seems. As I say the artistic side lens flare solar flare or backlit moves something in me,I deliberatley will seek such images,even in less than ideal conditions such as above. Rob,i've only made images of wildlife really with two lenses,the DO since november last,so I have little experience to draw upon ,essentially that's why I raised this to find out what more expreinced folks feel and see and how that might manifest it's self in post,if at all.

Robert I'm a simple man,lenses are tools to me, I'd like a big tool kit, but heey I'm incredibly lucky to have this lens,I could only dream of such a year or two back. The DO concept is a bit off the wall,built in a totally different way to more conventional lenses,all but alcamey,with light.I feel i am seeing some things that this lens does slightly differently and need to learn how to harness that creatively in my image making.

Cheers for the thoughts and the smiles.

take care kiddo:-)

stu




  
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May 18, 2018 09:04 |  #44

If all goes well I'll be ordering mine today (plus a 2X III). After 30 years we sold our cottage. Sold my boat last week and getting the rest of the dough at 11 AM. I'm both nervous and excited. I've never owned a lens of that value.


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May 19, 2018 00:39 |  #45

Digital you're going to love it.
The EXIF in this image is screwy. When I use the 400DOii + Metabones on the Sony it reports a 400DOii, when I use the Sigma MC-11 adapter it reports this crazy
DT 400mm F4 SAM :(

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Canon 400mm DO II first impressions
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