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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 17 Dec 2014 (Wednesday) 10:12
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bidkev
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Sep 26, 2016 01:59 |  #4576

clipper_from_oz wrote in post #18140491 (external link)
I have exactly the same problem on my 5dsr ....As you know the 5dsr and 7dMk2 are similar high pixel densities. Only difference being actual physical size of sensor with 5dsr being full frame and 7dMk2 being APS-c. My take on this is the sensor could well be picking up and amplifying subject movement especially in things like fine long grasses and leaves. And I too experience in bokeh of fine things like your seeing especially in fine long objects like pine needles, long grasses etc . And especially evident in heavy crops . As you know these high density "on target "pixel sensors like 7Dmk2 and 5dsr etc pick up camera shake well past the old rule of lens length x1 when determining S/S so when movement is happening in something like spinifex grass or pine needles its going to get amplified more in Bokeh than any in focus equivalent due to Aperture DOF blurring making things appear wider and bigger than they actually are . I know you have a shutter speed of 1/1600 in one of the images but Ive had it at those speeds also but the higher the speed the lesser the effect

So in light of nothing scientific out there thats my suspicion for whats occuring...However it may not be just one thing here ind infact as another poster mentioned maybe Aperture plays some part in this as I do remember reading somewhere that degradation of image( diffraction) starts earlier on these cameras/lens combos at around f7-f8 so maybe this could be it. .... Anyway rest assured you arnt on your own let me tell you:)

Cheers ......

This one is really weird?

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clipper_from_oz
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Post edited over 3 years ago by clipper_from_oz. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 26, 2016 03:20 |  #4577

Archibald wrote in post #18140586 (external link)
Interesting theories. To me it looks like an optical effect. Here is an example of mine from an earlier posting.


I think this is the worst/best example Ive seen of this..... I just went back over mine and found one similar

BTW...when you see it this bad it probably doesnt really support a subject movement theory given the way the ghosting appears. ANd Im not sure diffraction does this especially at f5.6 as mine is although Im not a diffraction expert so Im all ears if someone can explain this


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Sep 26, 2016 03:34 |  #4578

clipper_from_oz wrote in post #18140623 (external link)
I think this is the worst/best example Ive seen of this..... I just went back over mine and found one similar

BTW...when you see it this bad it probably doesnt really support a subject movement theory given the way the ghosting appears. ANd Im not sure diffraction does this especially at f5.6 as mine is although Im not a diffraction expert so Im all ears if someone can explain this
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Similar effect in the foreground as well as the back


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Sep 26, 2016 03:40 |  #4579

.
.
Something other than birds from my garden

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Post edited over 3 years ago by clipper_from_oz. (4 edits in all)
     
Sep 26, 2016 07:16 |  #4580

Well Ive just spent the last 3/4 hr looking through all the 100-400 Mk2 POTN gallery to see what the bokeh looks like and sure enough when I came across shots with lots of small fine items like long grass, pine needles or other fine long leaves I found this weird ghosting effect. Funny thing is when I went looking for the right sort of background for this to happen I had to really hunt!...I think its because most people dont shoot in amongst dense foliage , grass or thin twigs like some bird photogs do where this terrible Bokeh pattern happens. And that was borne out in the fact the only places I found some similar effects was in the bird portrait thread. And the ones I saw were way milder than the ones recently posted and I think this is more of a fact of people just not bothering to post the images with bad/distracting background effects rather than anything else.


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Sep 26, 2016 20:28 |  #4581

Here is another example of "discordant BG" looking over mudflats and water (Moreton Bay). Although I could see thermals in the distance (in the view finder), the view did not look as “gritty” or “chopped up” as the image.

Cheers

Dennis


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Sep 26, 2016 22:29 |  #4582

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Sep 26, 2016 23:35 |  #4583

Very nice series of these Silvereyes – quite small shy birds in my experience. Good technique at those shutter speeds with the extender on.

Cheers

Dennis




  
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Sep 27, 2016 00:09 |  #4584

nardes wrote in post #18141507 (external link)
Very nice series of these Silvereyes – quite small shy birds in my experience. Good technique at those shutter speeds with the extender on.

Cheers

Dennis


Thanks Dennis. Yes, they're very skittish and so small that invariably there's some foliage in the way or they move out of shot. It took 36 shots to get these 4 as there was either a shadow cast on them or they moved when I pressed the shutter. There was a bit of branch sway (wind) hence the aperture, hopefully to allow for drifting dof but then of course, you end up with a slower shutter speed. I don't like going higher iso on small birds although I should really have gone to 800 for a higher hit rate


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Sep 27, 2016 01:47 |  #4585

Great Green Bush-Cricket laying eggs.


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Sep 28, 2016 02:56 |  #4586

Question.

I took this photo last night. It's a big crop from the 5D4. The wooden stake is pretty sharp but the bird has a bit of motion blur at 1/800th, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

But it got me wondering what shutter speeds you guys shoot at to freeze bird motion.


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Sep 28, 2016 03:01 |  #4587

I don't know that I would have managed any better than you in that situation. I would have thought 1/800s is pretty quick but that guy looks like you might have needed at least 1/2000 to freeze its motion


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Sep 28, 2016 03:46 |  #4588

George Zip wrote in post #18142461 (external link)
Question.

I took this photo last night. It's a big crop from the 5D4. The wooden stake is pretty sharp but the bird has a bit of motion blur at 1/800th, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

But it got me wondering what shutter speeds you guys shoot at to freeze bird motion.


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I'm no birder, but when I last looked it was something like 1/1000th for large birds, and 1/2000th for small birds (as a rough rule of thumb).


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Sep 28, 2016 04:50 |  #4589

George Zip wrote in post #18142461 (external link)
Question.

I took this photo last night. It's a big crop from the 5D4. The wooden stake is pretty sharp but the bird has a bit of motion blur at 1/800th, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

But it got me wondering what shutter speeds you guys shoot at to freeze bird motion.


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Hi George

Here is a scaly-breasted lorikeet taken at 1/1600 sec shutter speed with an on camera flash in an attempt to freeze the action.

The AF missed the eye and latched onto the body/feet, which do show signs of being reasonably sharp compared to the OOF parts.

I’m not sure which component contributed more to the freezing of parts of the bird – the 1/1600 sec shutter or the flash duration?

I suspect that you would require around 1/2000 to 1/2500 for a smallish bird, such as the scaly-breasted lorikeet, when only a few metres away.

For Pelicans in straight, level flight I have frozen the bird at 1/1600 sec whilst also panning.

Cheers

Dennis


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Sep 28, 2016 07:34 |  #4590

nardes wrote in post #18142507 (external link)
I’m not sure which component contributed more to the freezing of parts of the bird – the 1/1600 sec shutter or the flash duration?

That'll depend on the amount of ambient light. You can often spot a flash + plenty of ambient light image: it'll be apparently sharp (also highlights in the eyes) but there'll be a sort of ghosting (like a second exposure) on any areas that moved (that were hit by both flash and ambient light).


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