EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Review WOW!

digital paradise wrote in post #18544009
It finally went from -35 celsius with the wind chill to above zero.

Ever noticed that it always feels colder than it is?

Except in the summer, when it always feels hotter than it is.

The 77D supports 27 active AF points with the 100-400mm II and 1.4X III (has to be version III).

This is expansion AF but I have have lots with small and 61 point zone AF. Cropped as well.

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Nice shot.

I suspect it may be your camera rather than your lens. My Canon 7D2 is not very sharp on my 100-400 Mk2 - certainly good but not very good. The same lens on my 1DX rivals my SuperTeles. On the other hand my 7D2 is wonderful on my 300 F2.8 L IS or 800 F5.6 L IS (if the light is really good).

I just wonder if the 100-400 Mk2 is better with lower density FF sensors? Others here seem to be getting great results - perhaps it is just us?

johnf3f wrote in post #18544034
I suspect it may be your camera rather than your lens. My Canon 7D2 is not very sharp on my 100-400 Mk2 - certainly good but not very good. The same lens on my 1DX rivals my SuperTeles. On the other hand my 7D2 is wonderful on my 300 F2.8 L IS or 800 F5.6 L IS (if the light is really good).

I just wonder if the 100-400 Mk2 is better with lower density FF sensors? Others here seem to be getting great results - perhaps it is just us?

Here's an example of what I'm seeing, and these are the keepers from today, so imagine the ones I binned. These are ~100% crop, SOOC, no sharpening added (aside from the LR default at import) or other edits made.

edmidlifecrisis wrote in post #18543971
I have been using the 7Dii 100-400 combo for a while and don't find it onerous to carry at all, I'm so used to it even if I am an old duffer!! That is why I work out.

I now have the 300 2.8 and it is pretty heavy no matter which body i use it with, and it usually has the 2X TC on it. But it is worth dragging around for the IQ. Sometimes I take both, one in a backpack and one on my strap. That is work but I do it anyway. I love those two lenses.

My 100-400 is now back after being repaired after a fall and I am happy to have it back, I'll tell you that.......

We have the same attitude about working on ourselves so we can do what we do. I don't want to slid into old age not working on me. I'm going kicking and screaming lol

Question about the fall ?? you had it on a strap and landed on it ??

MatthewK wrote in post #18544013
Despite that though, I'm continually let down by the mushy results from the 100-400/TC/80D combo though. I just binned 139 out of 157 shots due to them just being a hazy, mushy mess I'm lucky to have gotten the few that were barely decent. The rig is MFA'd, my SS is high enough, hand shake shouldn't be an issue, the light was fantastic (which makes me even more depressed). I may send this 100-400 to Canon.

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/Fsri​x5 Red Bellied #2 by M K, on Flickr

Matt my 7DII I don't like in great light. 1000 / iso 800 is not great on mine either some days. I used mode 2 most of the time i've had the 100-400LII BUT I tried 3 for a while and found my motion blur was more not less so I flipped it to 1 and was happy to se I could still shoot lol. I do use 2 still but remember there not great all round for everything.
Flip it to 1 and see what happens !! and stop grinding that thing into your face... its not helping lol just relax and shoot like you know you can.

My combo has always liked the darkness... Deer in the sun shine of January.. The light this time of year I dont keep the 1.4III on the camera much.

Pondrader wrote in post #18544131
...just relax...

Best advice ever, regardless of equipment.

LJ3Jim wrote in post #18544141
Best advice ever, regardless of equipment.

lol I'm trying to take my own advice a lot these days. lol

No butts about it..!!

MatthewK wrote in post #18544041
Here's an example of what I'm seeing, and these are the keepers from today, so imagine the ones I binned. These are ~100% crop, SOOC, no sharpening added (aside from the LR default at import) or other edits made.

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Hosted photo: posted by MatthewK in
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These should be brilliantly sharp, IMO, due to the lighting and amount of fine detail available. I understand the IQ-hit you take from a 1.4 TC, but no way should it be this egregious. The photos will clean up to a decent level in LR, but you start getting that weird, over cooked look before you get critical sharpness.

It’s worth doing some in-depth testing out before I take any action, but this is the 2nd session in a row where this mush has occurred, so there is an issue. At this point it’ll be more so about seeing, like you said, if it’s the camera body, or a combination of TC, that’s causing it. I need to shoot with just the bare lens too.

My other body is the 5D4, and I think the 100-400 + 1.4 combo has a similar effect, though it's not as pronounced. Something else to test out as well.

On the other hand, both the 5D4 and 80D with the 500 II is razor sharp, even w/ the 1.4x.

I really want this figured out, I absolutely adore this setup Despite this tiny hiccup, I still consider the 100-400 II Canon's Best Lens.

I'll throw in a few thoughts/questions if I may...totally unscientific but I'll put them out there.

As good as the 100-400 II is wide open native, I wonder if it may just need to be stopped down a fraction to be at its sharpest when used with the 1.4x. I notice these were taken at F8...wonder if the combo is sharper at F9,10 or 11?

Another possible reason for the softness on the 80D may be that the very small pixel pitch - 3.7µm - gives it a Diffraction Limiting Aperture of f5.9 and some reports do indicate this will be noticeable at f8. The 7DII, with a DLA of f6.6 may also suffer for the same reason. The 500II/1.4 x combo wide open at f5.6 should not have the same issue.

Hopefully it is not a combination of the two - as stopping down to increase sharpness will increase diffraction blur!!

With the higher DLA's due to greater pixel size the 5D4 and 1DX2 bodies may not be affected in the same way.

graham121 wrote in post #18544236
I'll throw in a few thoughts/questions if I may...totally unscientific but I'll put them out there.

As good as the 100-400 II is wide open native, I wonder if it may just need to be stopped down a fraction to be at its sharpest when used with the 1.4x. I notice these were taken at F8...wonder if the combo is sharper at F9,10 or 11?

Another possible reason for the softness on the 80D may be that the very small pixel pitch - 3.7µm - gives it a Diffraction Limiting Aperture of f5.9 and some reports do indicate this will be noticeable at f8. The 7DII, with a DLA of f6.6 may also suffer for the same reason. The 500II/1.4 x combo wide open at f5.6 should not have the same issue.

Hopefully it is not a combination of the two - as stopping down to increase sharpness will increase diffraction blur!!

With the higher DLA's due to greater pixel size the 5D4 and 1DX2 bodies may not be affected in the same way.

Starting with the same unscientific disclaimer..... I don't believe diffraction, at least up to f11 on modern crop sensors causes too much degradation.
I have done a lot of shooting at f11 with 7D2, I suspect I would have been better shooting wide open though at f8 (100-400 II with 1.4TC) and f9 (Sigma 150-600 S with 1.4 TC).

Some f11 examples:
(Images already posted on POTN so copied/pasted the EXIF)
100-400II with 1.4TCIII:
Canon EOS 7D Mark II | Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM @560mm | 1/160 | f/11 | ISO 100
Uncropped:

Pondrader wrote in post #18544131
Matt my 7DII I don't like in great light. 1000 / iso 800 is not great on mine either some days. I used mode 2 most of the time i've had the 100-400LII BUT I tried 3 for a while and found my motion blur was more not less so I flipped it to 1 and was happy to se I could still shoot lol. I do use 2 still but remember there not great all round for everything.
Flip it to 1 and see what happens !! and stop grinding that thing into your face... its not helping lol just relax and shoot like you know you can.

I'm going to spend some time going over everything, and one of the things I want to try is messing with the IS and see if it's introducing some kind of interference. Also, I shoot in AI Servo, so maybe One Shot will make a difference. Finally, going to do a thorough MFA again.

The afternoon out shooting was the most relaxing and fun I've had in a few weeks: plentiful bird activity, beautiful light, nice weather, and not being over burdened with gear helped to enjoy it even more. It was one of those rare days that make this hobby so worth it, when everything comes together and you just flow, and you know your shots are going to be nice. And to be honest with my results, if you don't pixel peep too much, and instead take in the subject/setting/compos​ition of the whole image, the shots came out great.

Yet, yet...... the logical, regimented side of my brain wants that order, wants it good down to the pixel, wants the gear to work as I know it can. If I had lost 20%, 30%, 40% of the shots from this blur, I'd be ok, but I binned 86% of the shots I took because of the mush/oof look, and of the 22 I kept, 3/4 of them are the typical "eyes closed/bad pose/motion blur/boring" shots that don't see the light of day. So yeah, in the end I'm rather deflated because of this technical issue marring the wonderful time I had shooting, but the silver lining is that there is a solution to be had, so not all hope is lost.

graham121 wrote in post #18544236
I'll throw in a few thoughts/questions if I may...totally unscientific but I'll put them out there.

As good as the 100-400 II is wide open native, I wonder if it may just need to be stopped down a fraction to be at its sharpest when used with the 1.4x. I notice these were taken at F8...wonder if the combo is sharper at F9,10 or 11?

Another possible reason for the softness on the 80D may be that the very small pixel pitch - 3.7µm - gives it a Diffraction Limiting Aperture of f5.9 and some reports do indicate this will be noticeable at f8. The 7DII, with a DLA of f6.6 may also suffer for the same reason. The 500II/1.4 x combo wide open at f5.6 should not have the same issue.

Hopefully it is not a combination of the two - as stopping down to increase sharpness will increase diffraction blur!!

With the higher DLA's due to greater pixel size the 5D4 and 1DX2 bodies may not be affected in the same way.

Definitely something to deduce; I've heard that stopping down w/ TC's is advisable as well, will be trying this when I run tests. There's definitely a small margin of usability w/ an f/8 combo, so hopefully this isn't the case.

Choderboy wrote in post #18544254
Starting with the same unscientific disclaimer..... I don't believe diffraction, at least up to f11 on modern crop sensors causes too much degradation.
I have done a lot of shooting at f11 with 7D2, I suspect I would have been better shooting wide open though at f8 (100-400 II with 1.4TC) and f9 (Sigma 150-600 S with 1.4 TC).

Some f11 examples:
(Images already posted on POTN so copied/pasted the EXIF)
100-400II with 1.4TCIII:
Canon EOS 7D Mark II | Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM @560mm | 1/160 | f/11 | ISO 100
Uncropped:

Discarded just over half the 5472 horizontal pixels for this 2697pixel wide crop:

Bigger crop, 2635 pixels wide:
Canon EOS 7D Mark II | Sigma 150-600mm F5-6.3 DG OS HSM | S @840mm | 1/1000 | f/11 | ISO 400

THIS is the IQ and detail I'm used to seeing with this set up. See, there is a silver lining to be had

digital paradise wrote in post #18543988
I use a Canon 1.4 III. I had a Sigma 1.4 and have a 2X. I also had a Canon 2X. I stacked the Canon and Sigma 2X with my 300L and 7D for moon shots. I found Sigma's IQ pretty good but I just like using Canon products for communication between the devices. I had a Sigma ring flash and when I got my 50D I had to send it to Sigma for a FW update.

As I recall I could not tell any significant difference between my older Canon 1.4 II and my Sigma 1.4.

Here is a shot of the moon with my 100-400 II and the Sigma 2X from last summer if it helps. No AF so I don't use it for anything else.

Original followed by the crop.

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Wow! Nice. You stacked the Canon 1.4 and Sigma 2X? I didn't know you could do that. Awesome!

Archibald wrote in post #18544032
Ever noticed that it always feels colder than it is?

Except in the summer, when it always feels hotter than it is.

The 77D supports 27 active AF points with the 100-400mm II and 1.4X III (has to be version III).

Nice shot.

27 is pretty good.

Yeah caution on the AI Servo.

What I've found is that you really must push the button halfway down, sometimes more than once, and depending on your vision/diopter setting/bird scale, you'll see when it's truly in sharp focus. Then fully hit the button to take the picture.

I know that sounds like photo101 material, but I've found on my 5dmkiv+1.4xiii combo, if I just start firing away I may get the first shot, but the following 2-5 will be mushy (not always, but sometimes). I imagine this is even more critical if you're going to use a crop body. Personally I have found the 5div+1.4x combo to be the best overall compromise on the 100-400 II, and it stays at F8, and handles ISO100-2500 brilliantly!!! (Even going 1 stop under then push processing an ISO 2500 image has been excellent too!)

Also, I think those that do post 100-400II + 1.4xIII + crop body shots on here, usually put a lot more time into the post processing of them with different sharpening/noise reduction techniques, which I tried on my 70d, and honestly, just way too much time on the computer!!! So I went back to the 5dIV for basically everything.

Then there's the MFA factor, and how steady you are when taking the shot, and I also think some go for less ISO and push process, and some will send the entire combination to Canon to calibrate together as a group @ 400mm for best results.

In the end though, big picture: I say keep focused on the Art of it, and have fun, and don't get caught up in the technical stuff too much, keep it as a fun hobby.

MatthewK wrote in post #18544277
I'm going to spend some time going over everything, and one of the things I want to try is messing with the IS and see if it's introducing some kind of interference. Also, I shoot in AI Servo, so maybe One Shot will make a difference. Finally, going to do a thorough MFA again.

The afternoon out shooting was the most relaxing and fun I've had in a few weeks: plentiful bird activity, beautiful light, nice weather, and not being over burdened with gear helped to enjoy it even more. It was one of those rare days that make this hobby so worth it, when everything comes together and you just flow, and you know your shots are going to be nice. And to be honest with my results, if you don't pixel peep too much, and instead take in the subject/setting/compos​ition of the whole image, the shots came out great.

Yet, yet...... the logical, regimented side of my brain wants that order, wants it good down to the pixel, wants the gear to work as I know it can. If I had lost 20%, 30%, 40% of the shots from this blur, I'd be ok, but I binned 86% of the shots I took because of the mush/oof look, and of the 22 I kept, 3/4 of them are the typical "eyes closed/bad pose/motion blur/boring" shots that don't see the light of day. So yeah, in the end I'm rather deflated because of this technical issue marring the wonderful time I had shooting, but the silver lining is that there is a solution to be had, so not all hope is lost.

Definitely something to deduce; I've heard that stopping down w/ TC's is advisable as well, will be trying this when I run tests. There's definitely a small margin of usability w/ an f/8 combo, so hopefully this isn't the case.

THIS is the IQ and detail I'm used to seeing with this set up. See, there is a silver lining to be had