Rainier Engagement

JGR wrote in post #17371906
Off trail? Who cares! An off trail composition is often a better choice than on trail.

Bluntly, we all should care. It is this attitude that ends up giving all photographers a bad name and getting photography banned in certain places. Ignorance can be excused once, however a blatant disregard for the rules is not. This is no different that photographing on active rail lines.

Having spent a lot of time at Rainier, I know there are signs everywhere, stay on trail, don't feed the animals, that are ignored. As swmeans said, it gives us all a bad name, especially photographers.

texasred wrote in post #17372113
Being off trail in our national parks is prohibited by law.....

This is patently incorrect information. This is no National Park Regulation, applicable to ALL National Parks that prohibits being "off-trail". If that were the case, many fishermen would not be able to fish in Yellowstone (no trails to the rivers). Mountain climbers would not be permitted to climb, as in the current group attempting to scale the face of half dome, even with a permit. Permits do not suspend the law. They merely keep track of who is where and how many are in the back country. This is a myth that continues to be propagated by those who do not know the rules, to those who have never been to a national park before. While it is true that Ranier specifically prohibits being "off-trail" in certain areas due to the tundra, this is also true of Rocky Mountain National Park, at certain locations and at certain elevations. Before anyone ventures "off trail", one should consult with the proper authorities to determine where that is and is not permitted. Finally, if being off trail was prohibited it would be clearly spelled our in the back country regulations. This website http://www.nps.gov …ackcountrytripp​lanner.htm is for the backcountry regulations of Yellowstone. No where do I find a restriction for being off trail. One would have thought if it was a National Park Law across all parks, it would be front and center.

And now to address Mount Ranier NP directly, while it is true that Mount Ranier has different regulations for different regions of the park, this is quote is from the National Park Service website for Mount Ranier NP, where it specifically PERMITS hiking and camping off trail.

Crosscountry Zone Camping: Crosscountry travel and camping is demanding, challenging, and rewarding. These beautiful, pristine areas can be rough and difficult to navigate (especially in poor weather). There are no maintained trails, campsites, or amenities, and water sources can be scarce in late season. Choosing to camp in a crosscountry zone requires a higher level of physical conditioning, knowledge and experience with Leave No Trace camping practices, and sound navigational skills. Crosscountry zone camping also offers an unparalleled opportunity for solitude and can be among the most rewarding experiences hiking has to offer. All crosscountry camping sites must be at least 1/4 mile away from any road or established trail. However, suitable terrain for camping is almost always much farther and may take an additional several hours to locate. Camps must also be at least 100 feet from lakes, streams, and other wetlands. Party size may not exceed 5 people in summer. Choose crosscountry camping only if you are adept with map and compass and are in excellent physical condition for enduring the additional challenge of crosscountry travel. Hikers doing the complete Wonderland Trail are limited to camping in designated camps only—the use of cross-country zones is not permitted.

Don't you find it interesting that this regulations states that a campsite MUST be at lest 1/4 mile from any road or established trail? How do you do that if you are not allowed off trail? This specific reference can be found at http://www.nps.gov …lines-and-regulations.htm

As photographers, we have a duty to understand and follow all applicable regulations within the parks that we visit and/or shoot. However, disseminating incorrect information to fellow photographers, does not help anyone in understanding or following the various guidelines that are unique to each park. Before you make such a patently incorrect statement, my suggestion would be that you (1) determine specifically where in the park the photograph(s) were taken so that you can assist the photographer in following the regulations of the park and (2) help a fellow photographer,without criticizing what you yourself do not understand, follow the rules and regulations for where they are shooting.

May you and everyone who supports our National Parks understand the regulations, abide by them, and thoroughly enjoy "America's Best Idea"http://www.nps.gov/ame​ricasbestidea/.

To the best of my knowledge, we aren't talking about camping or hiking. We are talking about being in sensitive meadows that have definite, established trails around them, with signs that say " stay on the trail". I have read the compendium for the park I visit frequently, and I have a good idea where these photos were taken and they weren't in the backcountry.

Unless you have very specific information that you KNOW to be the location of where these photographs were taken, you are speculating. But your first post didn't say, "oh, by the way, Mount Ranier NP has regulations prohibiting being off of the trail in certain locations of the park." What you said was, and I quote, "Being off trail in our national parks is prohibited by law, as is commercial photography without a permit. Because it makes a better photo doesn't make it right." This is factually incorrect. If you have information that you would like to provide to the OP so that he can be more informed when he is in MRNP, then that is helpful. But to cite a law/regulation that does not exist in no way helps photographers or anyone else for that matter. Trying to re-write history in your posts only makes your post look more self-righteous than helpful. So, perhaps you should limit your "expertise" of the park to those areas where you can point to on a map and say, these areas are posted "stay on the trail". Otherwise, it might be best to limit your helpfulness to posts that have factual based content and can actually help others.

I like the last image a lot, but I'm curious as to why their legs are blurry? Is this a dof issue with the lens or did you do that in post? And if so, why? I think it takes away from an incredible image. And, B&W here is great! I'm sure you gave the couple a color version as well.

I wish they were not all centered in the pics; nice shots though. I am sure that was fun taking these images while making sure no bears are behind you

I love all pics, but on 2nd one i wish there was a bit more ... detail in shadows closest to lit skin. Sort of ... light fall of. This way its bit ... abrupt.

I dig the feel of these you did a good job.

The only thing I haven't seen addressed yet in this thread is the colors in #3. I'm at work so if it's just my monitor please excuse this comment but it seems to have a distracting white balance. The skin tones don't look as pleasing and the greens seem a bit strong. Anyone else notice this?

No green here.... Looks fine...

Definitely a little green on my monitor as well. And the one in the shadows, it looks like he has a huge bruise on his forehead. Might be better in black and white. They're also dead center in every composition. Maybe a little variety. Just a thought.

I really like the location!

Like shadows on #2, good job.

I saw the title and thought it was actually RAINing...lol

LOVE these! Especially the use of shadows in the 2nd one!

Love the positioning and framing. For #2, the shadows are an interesting idea but not my cup of tea because to me the shadows on her face make her look older. I don't know the couple, but I feel like #3 encapsulates the personality I would think this couple has - fun and free