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Thread started 23 Feb 2006 (Thursday) 20:24
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Sigma 30mm f1.4 EX DC HSM

 
agv8or
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Oct 06, 2011 14:12 |  #5941

HelenOster wrote in post #13212316 (external link)
Thank you for your feedback. Did you ever raise these issues with me directly, ie, the damage to the packaging, and the loss of your rebate? Or did anyone in the CS team help you with this at all?

If not, then please do email me, with your order number: elen@adorama.com (external link)

No I did not contact Adoroma customer service about the damaged boxes because I could not find any damage to the lenses themselves that would dictate me doing so. Both of the lenses seem to be working fine at the moment and I have definitely tested both very thoroughly and have been using the image stabilized lens almost daily for the last month with no issues so I think we are good to go.

I bought a 70-200L f/2.8 IS lens 6-7 years ago that had its stabilization knocked completely out of whack during shipping. I called Canon and they put me through to a service tech who said they saw that from time to time with lenses when being shipped. He had me cycle the camera on and off while working the IS and it finally cleared up and was still working great when I sold it last Summer.

It is just not the sellers that need to do a better job but the factory service centers as well. I have sent lenses and cameras to both Sigma and Canon as well as several lenses to Tamron. When I send them I always make sure they are securely and protectively packed well. When I get the items back they are always in smaller boxes with very little packing material. So if they thought their items could be damaged on a regular basis through shipping then it seems they would take a little more caution themselves in packing the items for return shipping after service.

I have bought over 100 lenses in the past 32 years, most of which have been shipped to me. I can only attribute shipping as the cause of problems with the one lens that I previously mentioned. As I also previously mentioned, in my previous post, I attribute most of the issues that I have had with the 7 lenses this year are more than likely problems with quality control rather than any damage that may have been caused during shipping but, as I will mention below, I have seen a difference in the way sellers pack items for shipping so maybe some issues today could be attributed to shipping damage.

What I have seen over the past few years is Adoroma and other sellers shift from using packing peanuts (we all hate them) and bubble wrap to using the larger air filled plastic bags. These larger air filled bags do not allow you to completely surround items unless the shipping boxes are quite large. This forces shipping personel to pack items alot less securely than before. There are some items that these large air filled bags may work great for but when you need to completely surround an item to protect it then the packing peanuts or bubble wrap is needed. EDIT: or some alternative to peanuts or bubble wrap.

What I found in the lenses that were shipped to me this year is the lens boxes are shoved to one side while the air filled bags are then placed in the shipping box to try and keep the lens box in place. Often these boxes arrive bulging at the seems because the airbags are so big that using one less would not provide adequate packing but by using the one bag the box is now too full. By shoving the lens box to one side of the shipping box does not protect it from impact damage as any impact to the shipping box is transmitted directly to the lens box. That was the case with my lens and the reason for the lens box being damaged.


Rand

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HelenOster
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Oct 07, 2011 05:52 |  #5942

agv8or wrote in post #13214005 (external link)
What I have seen over the past few years is Adoroma and other sellers shift from using packing peanuts (we all hate them) and bubble wrap to using the larger air filled plastic bags.

Our purchasing department are in discussion with Sigma, and we are issuing them an invitation to come visit our packing department as soon as can be arranged.

We haven’t used peanuts at least since the past 3+ years probably even longer.


Peanuts are:
· Very expensive in the long run
· They take up a lot of valuable warehouse space to store them (which we don’t have any extra space)
· They are very messy and blow all over the warehouse in the summer
· Not all peanuts dissolve in water that is an additive that costs an additional fee for those type of peanuts
· Most people dispose of them in landfills not water
· You need to fill huge hoppers that hang from the ceiling above packers
· Peanuts have been proven to serve as inadequate protection to what is available nowadays. Items packed in the center of the box surrounded by peanuts can actually shift to the bottom during transit and could take damage to the item.

Pillows:
· The machine is compact and the pillows are on a roll. So everything fits neatly on a packers desk
· Each roll is in a box stacked neatly on a pallet which fits into a pallet rack location
· They are proven better shock absorbers
· Pillows are cheaper than peanuts

Sounds like a sporadic issue with the packing team. We actually pack above and beyond the industry standard. Most packaging companies that come in and see our operation are taken back by the amount of pillows we use in one carton.

They actually drool to try and get the business because it is not the norm.

The industry standard is to put the item in the box to one corner and then fill the void with dunnage whether it be peanuts, pillows, foam, or paper.

We actually blanket the bottom and the sides of the box and then place the item in the middle and then fold over the pillows and add more to fill the box where needed.

The only thing we don’t add any pillows to are items that ship in the vendor box, and soft goods (t-shirts, backpacks, hats, etc).



  
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kfreels
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Oct 07, 2011 08:41 as a reply to  @ HelenOster's post |  #5943

Hey. I got a package with a different kind of pillow when my third and final Sigma 30 1.4 was sent to me. They are like mini pillows or large square bubble-wrap. They were wrapped entirely around the lens box and then the extra space in the box was filled with regular Adorama pillows. It was an awesome packing job which is why I brought it up in the first place but I haven't seen this packaging used in any of my subsequent purchases.


I am serious....and don't call me Shirley.
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agv8or
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Oct 07, 2011 13:17 |  #5944

HelenOster wrote in post #13216675 (external link)
1. Our purchasing department are in discussion with Sigma, and we are issuing them an invitation to come visit our packing department as soon as can be arranged.

2. We haven’t used peanuts at least since the past 3+ years probably even longer.

3. The industry standard is to put the item in the box to one corner and then fill the void with dunnage whether it be peanuts, pillows, foam, or paper.

4. We actually blanket the bottom and the sides of the box and then place the item in the middle and then fold over the pillows and add more to fill the box where needed.

1. I know that Adoroma addresses issues and it is much appreciated. Maybe some pictures and explainations, of how you package and ship lenses, could be sent to Sigma, Canon and others which would suffice before an actual visit would be neccessary. I am sure your shipping department is state of the art and the pillow machines along with your way of packing and shipping is in line with or superior to the current shipping standards.

2. I think we all hate peanuts (or at least most do) and I know they are a nightmare to store and use plus they are expensive all the way around. I think what you have set up with the pillows is great plus they are fun to pop. Maybe for lenses or other special needs items some other packing product (other than peanuts) exists that may not be to terribly expensive or inconvenient to use. I guess each seller would have to determine this for themselves.

3. I have noticed this is the trend with everyone and for most items works really well. Unfortunately placing a boxed item, such as a lens, next to the side(s) of the shipping box does little to protect the contents from impact damage. If the shipping box is dropped on the floor, on a side with a lens box tight against it, is nearly the same as if the lens box itself is hitting the floor. It may be worse because the weight of the total contents will be more than the lens box itself which would result in a greater impact. Impact damage can be physical damage such as dented, deformed or torn etc.... which is the damage that showed up on my lens box. Impact damage could also cause unseen damage from the actual sudden stoppage or jaring at impact which might show up immediately or at some other time in the future. I think this unseen impact damage is what is at the heart of this discussion and whether it is attributing to any of the problems being experienced with Sigmas or other lenses with focus issues.

4. Blanketing with deflated pillows does very little to cushion impact damage. It may help protect the outside of the lens box from abrading on the shipping box but unless it is wadded up to provide cushioning, just laying flat between the shipping box and lens box does little to prevent impact damage.

From what I gather, from talking to the guys at Sigma, it is a very small percentage of lenses that actually have focus issues. I was just unlucky to have 4 in one year. I would think that if Sigma thought impact damage, sustained in shipping or through negligence by the photographer, was a contributing factor in the focus issues they would have said something. If the lens manufacturers feel your shipping practices are adequate then that is what matters the most since they have to warranty and service those faulty products. I still personally feel that most of the issues are quality control in nature and just a sign of the times with just a slight possiblity if any attributed to shipping.


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kfreels
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Oct 07, 2011 15:10 |  #5945

agv8or wrote in post #13218162 (external link)
From what I gather, from talking to the guys at Sigma, it is a very small percentage of lenses that actually have focus issues. I was just unlucky to have 4 in one year.

You had 4 in one year. I had two in a row. And many others have as well. With the number of people who have had multiple bad copies of the lens they ordered and eventually ended up with a good one, the odds are in favor of there being many more problems than are actually reported. Most buyers would have to either fail to notice, accept it as normal, or think that it's something they are themselves doing wrong.

Also, I think Helen may have inadvertently suggested that the number of returns on this lens is higher than normal for other lenses.


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idsurfer
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Oct 07, 2011 18:36 as a reply to  @ post 11513478 |  #5946

Here's one just so we don't have too many pages going by without any actual photos in the thread! ;) I would love to post something more creative, but 99% of my shots are family and flowers! Man, I didn't travel very much this summer. :cry:

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6009/6206334030_6e129e3db8_z.jpg

Cory
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agv8or
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Oct 07, 2011 19:46 |  #5947

kfreels wrote in post #13218547 (external link)
You had 4 in one year.

Yeah 4 Sigmas but I also said I had 3 Canon L lenses as well this past year. So all the focus issues do not just reside with Sigma.


Rand

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JimmyDude911
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Oct 07, 2011 20:44 |  #5948

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6103/6221911198_421c8a6c94_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/25753704@N04/6​221911198/  (external link)
Toy Boat, Toy Boat, Toy Boat (external link) by jimmydude911 (external link), on Flickr

Canon EOS 5D Mark ii | Canon 50/1.4 |Rokinon 85/1.4 |
Leica M4-P | 40/1.4 Nokton |
Bronica ETRS | 50/2.8 | 75/2.8 |
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stockshas
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Oct 07, 2011 20:58 |  #5949

^^ Nice!!




  
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2camerafamily
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Oct 08, 2011 15:41 as a reply to  @ stockshas's post |  #5950

A few from a recent trip to Disneyland:

Sigma 30 - 2.0, 1/3200, ISO 100

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6153/6221552199_63d141c73b_z.jpg

Sigma 30 - 2.8, 1/250, ISO 100
IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6155/6222079268_6d8b512c59_z.jpg

Sigma 30 - 2.8, 1/5000, ISO 100
IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6166/6222084092_199fa92bd7_z.jpg

Mine: 7D - 50L, 135L, 17-55 2.8, ∑ 30 1.4, ∑ 50-150 II 2.8. Hers: T2i - 18-200.

  
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JimmyDude911
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Oct 08, 2011 18:51 |  #5951

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6083/6153708804_e1788e46cb_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/25753704@N04/6​153708804/  (external link)
Untitled (external link) by jimmydude911 (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6082/6153707328_956d1149e4_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/25753704@N04/6​153707328/  (external link)
Untitled (external link) by jimmydude911 (external link), on Flickr

Canon EOS 5D Mark ii | Canon 50/1.4 |Rokinon 85/1.4 |
Leica M4-P | 40/1.4 Nokton |
Bronica ETRS | 50/2.8 | 75/2.8 |
flickr (external link)

  
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idsurfer
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Oct 08, 2011 19:26 |  #5952

Dude, JimmyDude911, thanks for waking this thread back up !! Looking good...


Cory
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JimmyDude911
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Oct 08, 2011 19:29 |  #5953

idsurfer wrote in post #13222833 (external link)
Dude, JimmyDude911, thanks for waking this thread back up !! Looking good...

haha no problem, man! this isn't a thread about packaging peanuts! :p
here's another haha

IMAGE: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6182/6148497459_ca7e0a65bc_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/25753704@N04/6​148497459/  (external link)
Untitled (external link) by jimmydude911 (external link), on Flickr

Canon EOS 5D Mark ii | Canon 50/1.4 |Rokinon 85/1.4 |
Leica M4-P | 40/1.4 Nokton |
Bronica ETRS | 50/2.8 | 75/2.8 |
flickr (external link)

  
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edmyloo
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Oct 08, 2011 20:43 |  #5954

Jellyfish! :D


HOSTED PHOTO
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tomcat7886
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Oct 08, 2011 22:15 |  #5955

Nicee


Canon T2i | 18-55mm IS Kit | Tamron 17-50 f2.8 VC | Joby Gorillapod SLR-Zoommmmm! | Black Canon Edition Crumpler Industry Disgrace
Crumpler on Sale: BLACK https://photography-on-the.net ...ghlight=industry+di​sgrace

  
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