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FORUMS General Gear Talk Data Storage, Memory Cards & Backup 
Thread started 10 Jan 2015 (Saturday) 14:28
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BigAl007
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Jan 22, 2015 11:28 |  #16

BigAl007 wrote in post #17383513 (external link)
That's great until you find that the thirty years of slides and negatives, along with the prints that you have in cardboard archive boxes under the bed have all been destroyed when your ground floor flat was flooded. Everything gone. That was my situation, lots of other ways to loose analogue images too though, fire being the other very likely possibility that will get everything in one go. At least with digital it is quite possible to keep multiple first generation copies that do not take up large quantities of physical space. Multiple redundancy is the only way to be sure.

Alan


HappySnapper90 wrote in post #17388300 (external link)
Sorry to hear that but that is akin to using your next door neighbor to backup your photos using his wifi - with permission to his hard drive. Then he dies or goes to jail and no one else knew he had this agreement with him. SOL.

Agsin, was poor planning on your part having valuables in a places that were in danger if ttge area flooded.

Well mostly as I was living in a single room bedsit (after separating from my ex) about 20'×10' I didn't really have much in the way of storage options for all of those rather bulky slides, negatives and prints. Keeping them off the floor might have helped when I got flooded, not so good if the building had burned down though. The other big problem with storing analogue media is that it is impossible to create first generation copies of analogue images. With analogue ANY backup copy you create will actually be a second generation copy at best. Unfortunately there is no way to ensure that a single original negative or transparency can be permanently stored that is 100% disaster proof. Of course I can make second or later generation copies as backup, but of course they come with a loss of quality, and are still pretty bulky to store, and bulk still makes for expense when storing anything.

With the current price of digital data storage it is actually very easy to maintain multiple first generation copies of both the original RAW file and final edited images. OK so the technology changes both in regard to software and hardware. hardware is easy, as it is quite simple to move the copies of the data to new devices as they are introduced. Because we are dealing with digital data there is no loss of information in these transfers, so we are still dealing with first generation copies. In the case of software changing I admit that there is a slight possibility that old file formats will become obsolete. I cannot recall any image file format that has ever been in general use that is in that situation. Even if a format were to be completely dropped, as long as the file format was fully documented it is not difficult to have some software for the then current systems written that will be able to open and display any type of old file. So the oft quoted disappearance of software support is also a real red herring in ongoing use of digital images. Keep multiple copies, in multiple locations, and the chances are you will never have anything to worry about. Environmental conditions for the storage of digital data now is also much wider than those conditions you need for storing analogue images too.

Alan


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Perfectly ­ Frank
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Jan 22, 2015 12:12 |  #17

Wilt wrote in post #17376506 (external link)
Don't rely on off-line storage services as your sole 'backup'...too many have ceased to exist, sometimes giving no warning to its clients of it going out of business, and exiting the storage business without transferring client data to a different off-line storage vendor!

Although not intended as a backup service, Webshots was a big photo hosting site similar to flickr. One could retrieve images after they were uploaded.
Webshots went out of business a few yrs ago.

I know some people who use sites like smugmug and flickr as a type of backup. One never knows what the future will bring.


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DGStinner
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Jan 22, 2015 13:02 |  #18

Perfectly Frank wrote in post #17394868 (external link)
I know some people who use sites like smugmug and flickr as a type of backup. One never knows what the future will bring.

Considering they offer 1TB of storage, I would use them more for backup if there was a way to download the photos in bulk or if they had a Windows Explorer/Mac Finder type interface.




  
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mikeinctown
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Jan 22, 2015 14:07 |  #19

Luckless wrote in post #17383702 (external link)
Not to mention that I wouldn't want to be the one discovering that the "100 year archival ink" from the printers was a bad batch, and all the colour suddenly broke down after five or six years.

Canon used to have their 50 year ink or whatever it was 10-15 years back. I printed a nice photo of a 350Z and pinned it up on my corkboard at work. 5-10 years later it was faded and looked like a photo that had been taken in the 70's. The sad fact is that they only claim their ink will last that long if you use a certain ink and a certain paper and store it according to certain methods. othewise it is a crap shoot.

On the topic, I thought I was safe with a regular drive plus one backup. My regular drive got corrupted and so I reformatted, reloaded all my software and then went to retrieve files from the backup. You guessed it, the backup was dead. :( I only lost a year's worth of photos as I was lucky enough to have a separate older backup on a pocket drive. So I have to agree with others who insist on at least three backup methods. yes it does cost $$ but electronics aren't always 100%




  
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Wilt
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Jan 22, 2015 14:15 as a reply to  @ BigAl007's post |  #20

Ancient Mariner wrote in post #17388356 (external link)
Ten years from now, when your PC dies a horrible death and you buy a replacement with Windows 16, you find out that you can't get a USB port - or a card reader - or a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray drive because they have all been replaced with the latest and greatest Whizzbang storage device.

For long term storage, I'm more worried about the ability to read today's storage media than whether the storage media has gone bad. Current devices only need to last until they are replaced with something newer and better. And we need to be prepared to move with the new technology.

Remember when ZIP drives were the biggest and best storage media available? :rolleyes:

^^^

BigAl007 wrote:
OK so the technology changes both in regard to software and hardware. hardware is easy, as it is quite simple to move the copies of the data to new devices as they are introduced.

Imagine that digital photography was well established in 1988, when harddrives were using the ST-506 controllers. Fast forward to now, and you have the old drives sitting anti-static bags nested in cushioned boxes ...find an ST-506 harddrive controller that has a PCI connector (much less PCIe connector) on it so it can be inserted into today's computer so the data can be retrieved!


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seall
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Jan 22, 2015 14:30 |  #21

Considering the amount of long term POTN users who are on fast broad band systems I am surprised you have not got together to build an distributed type encrypted redundant storage system.




  
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number ­ six
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Jan 22, 2015 15:06 |  #22

Ancient Mariner wrote in post #17388356 (external link)
Ten years from now, when your PC dies a horrible death and you buy a replacement with Windows 16, you find out that you can't get a USB port - or a card reader - or a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray drive because they have all been replaced with the latest and greatest Whizzbang storage device.

Remember audio cassette tapes? My wife has several she wants to transfer to CD or MP3.

So just last week she bought a brand new cassette player with USB output.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a ZIP adapter out there somewhere...

-js


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Jan 22, 2015 17:30 |  #23

number six wrote in post #17395076 (external link)
Remember audio cassette tapes? My wife has several she wants to transfer to CD or MP3.

So just last week she bought a brand new cassette player with USB output.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a ZIP adapter out there somewhere...

-js

There is.

http://www.usbgear.net​/item_42.html (external link)


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number ­ six
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Jan 24, 2015 14:28 |  #24

Hmmmm. I've got this box of 8 inch floppies....


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Aznattic
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Jan 24, 2015 18:00 |  #25

I typically just save on my pc (secondary hdd as opposed to the OS one), then save another copy onto my raid 5 server. 2 copies is all i need but if i wanted to take it a step further i would backup to an online storage


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