Live baiting using animals for photography

Live baiting using animals for photography

I would be interested to hear fellow togs comments on the use of live animals to attract predators to get get that special shot ...

Not something I do or have ever done, morally and ethically wrong in my opinion.
Is staking out a live goat for a tiger any different from using live captive minnows ( animals) to attract and feed Kingfishers? The latter has resulted in award winning images and is used by many pro hide photography outfits.

I have yet to hear a convincing logical argument as to why it should be ethical.

Thanks

Well, I am not going to take sides accept as to mention a brilliant book which covers some of the legalities regarding baiting:

Wildlife Crime and the Law, Alan Stewart, by Argyll Publishing.

I'm sure a lot of the great pics I've seen of eagles have involved throwing dead fish into the water, or for owl shots, using mice.

I don't know about the morality, but if it effects the way the preditor hunts or its acclimation to, or reliance on, humans, I see it as a bad thing.

Then there's the question of cruelty to the bait animals. On one end of the spectrum there is, say using goats for tigers, and on the other, mealworms for backyard birds (or minnows for Kingfishers). Where in the order of animals is the cut-off for acceptablilty?

Specifically live animals is my question, not insects, otherwise we go way down the food chain

Thanks, are there any relevant quotes in the book?

Okay. So are snakes okay for bating hawks? How about frogs? Goldfish? Where up the food chain do you draw the line? Rabbits? Are reptiles okay to use, but not mammals? What about using doves?

That was my whole point in mentioning mealworms and goats. Where along that continuum do you draw the line?

Goats, Snakes ,frogs and fish are all animals . Mealworms are insects.

My question was live animals .....

actually arent they all animals? Insects are different from mammals, fish and amphibians... But they are all animals.

My thought, too. But I'm not going to argue the point.

Yes you are correct, my fault

LV Moose wrote in post #17379142
Okay. So are snakes okay for bating hawks? How about frogs? Goldfish? Where up the food chain do you draw the line? Rabbits? Are reptiles okay to use, but not mammals? What about using doves?

That was my whole point in mentioning mealworms and goats. Where along that continuum do you draw the line?

I think there lies the fundamental problem. When a line has to be drawn, it will be drawn differently from person to person thus you get into these type of debates. Last year there was a huge debate about baiting owls with mice and many were indignant because they saw it as cruel to the mice. But I'll venture a guess that many of the same people think nothing when tossing a sticky bait trap in their garage to catch the same mice.

I dont think there is any rule that says one kind of animal is okay and another isn't. Personally if you need to bait using anything then you didn't really get the shot. Im not saying that it isn't still hard to get shots with baiting but I think if you allow it, then you get into this kind of thinking of what is okay and what isn't. I feel like any kind of baiting is wrong, ethically and creatively wise.

oscardog wrote in post #17379167
I dont think there is any rule that says one kind of animal is okay and another isn't. Personally if you need to bait using anything then you didn't really get the shot. Im not saying that it isn't still hard to get shots with baiting but I think if you allow it, then you get into this kind of thinking of what is okay and what isn't. I feel like any kind of baiting is wrong, ethically and creatively wise.

Couldnt have been said better. This is my exact thought on this subject. Get the shot without baiting. In the wild in a natural course of events.

gjl711 wrote in post #17379163
Last year there was a huge debate about baiting owls with mice and many were indignant because they saw it as cruel to the mice. But I'll venture a guess that many of the same people think nothing when tossing a sticky bait trap in their garage to catch the same mice.

I think baiting for photography is a little different than dealing with potentially sickness bearing creatures in the home.

I personally wouldn't bait to get a shot...but not because I think it's cruel to mice or fish or insects. I wouldn't do it because I do bird and wildlife photography as a hobby, a passion. To me, wildlife photography is as much a skill as ethical hunting, involving patience, knowledge, research and a certain thrill that comes with locating your target in just the right time and place. Baiting is cheating, like jacklighting deer or shooting a duck in the water.
But if I were a professional who made a living from my photography, I might have a different opinion. That's another reason I am not a professional...too much pressure for results.