Windows 10 Thread (Will apps/programs truly be universal?)

Yesterday Microsoft announced the soon-to-be released Windows 10 (there was no 9 because, well, seven ate nine).

Anyway, most of Windows 10 is cosmetic stuff to make both Windows 8/8.1 and Windows 7 users happy and, presumably, create world harmony. But there aren't really any new features that will blow minds.

Except....

Microsoft is claiming that apps will be universal. What that means is that all your applications will run on all your devices. So, if you had a desktop computer, a tablet, and a Windows phone, you would have the exact same thing (but in different sizes).

Now, we all know that the larger the machine, the easier it is to make it fast and strong. That's why a desktop computer can be pumped full of Ram goodness so easily, along with a giant 2.5 foot screen for Photoshop goodness.

A laptop can be powerful too, but you have to make due with a weaker screen (at least in size).

And a tablet? Well, they are so slim that you are generally limited in RAM, screen size and storage, but they are so portable that they sometimes make it worthwhile.

And then there are the phones.

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So far there isn't one single system that runs exactly the same across the desktop, laptop, tablet and phone. Let's look at the big three: Apple, Google, and Microsoft.


Take Apple: Your iMac (desktop) and Macbook and airbook can run anything. You want Lightroom and Photoshop? Done. The rest of the Creative stuff Adobe makes? Done. Complete video editing? Done. Full office suite? Done. Storage? Done.

But then we take a step down when we decide to walk down the hall, sit on a train, etc. when we switch to Apple's mobile devices. Can you still look at your photos, check your email, make a call, etc.? Yes. Can you open Adobe Photoshop or Lightroom? Nope. Instead you get a watered-down mobile app that has nowhere near the editing capability of your laptop or desktop. You're limited the minute you walk out the door (and a laptop is awkward to use if you need to use one hand to steady it).

And to make matters worse, your typical iPhone has 1gb of RAM. That's fine for Angry Birds, but forget the good stuff.

So it's clear: Apple doesn't have universal apps.

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Google: The Chrome/Android system is universal if you are checking email, making documents, spreadsheets, viewing photos, listening to music, etc., but the whole thing is mobile, and that includes the Chromebooks. A Chromebook is as close as you can get to a laptop (forget desktop), and Chrome is basically a superapp that pulls in various websites that can make those documents, lightly edit photos, run email, check the weather, etc. Chrome/Android is awesome, but it's no more powerful than the ipads. In fact, Android is pretty much the same thing as an iPhone or iPad (in terms of power and capability).

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Microsoft: This is the foundation of my post (sorry it's so long, but I'm trying to learn something here that doesn't seem to be answered in all the news reports and previews of Windows 10).

Microsoft claims that with the release of Windows 10 (sometime in mid to late 2015) that apps will be universal.

What in the world does that mean? Does it mean what I think it means? Does it mean what I hope it means?

Yeah, yeah, I get that the web browser, email, office suite, etc. will be the same on all three devices (laptop/desktop, tablet, and phone), but those apps don't take real power to run.

I'm talking about real computing power. Processors like the i5 and i7, 4gb of RAM (or more), and the ability to run any app on any device.

In other words: Will the Windows Phone be able to run real Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom? That's what I want to know.

Never mind the question of "why would you want to?" That's not what this topic is about.

I'm wondering if the Windows phones will be real hand-held computers (something that has simply not been released...ever...by anyone).


NOTE: I have everything: I have all the above systems. I love technology and own products from Google, Apple and Microsoft. Each is a blast to use.

Right now Microsoft is making a big comeback in my head for the following reason: my eight-inch tablet is a real computer.

That's right. My 8-inch ASUS tablet runs Windows 8.1. No, not Windows RT or Windows Mobile or anything like that. It runs the same exact operating system as my new and powerful Dell desktop. My tablet has nowhere near the computing power of my desktop, but at least it runs all the same programs. I have Adobe Photoshop (the latest version) on my tablet. It's not a lightweight version. It's the real Adobe Photoshop with all the same capabilities. And it works. Plus, with a bluetooth mouse and keyboard it's a computer. I can take the tablet anywhere and operate it with my fingers, or plug in stuff and run it in a traditional way. The iPad and Android tablets are mobile only. No Photoshop. No Lightroom.

My tablet was about $170. While it doesn't have a powerful processor, the processor actually runs Photoshop and Lightroom. It has 2gb of ram and 32gb of storage (along with 16 more I stuck in there) for a total of 48gb.

It's pretty much the exact same power as my last laptop, but is the same size as an iPad mini.

Apple iPads aren't the same as their desktop/laptop computers. Nobody else is making real computers in tablet form.


And that brings me, again, to the phone. I'm saying that if the next operating system allows a phone to be a real computer that runs the same OS as the desktops, allowing the same programs (real programs), then it will be a true trifecta and a true universal operating system.


And that makes me very stoked.

IF this is what Microsoft is actually doing.


Are they?

Universal apps doesn't mean you'd get same functionality across devices. It allows software developers to create one application which tailors itself to the destination device. Lightroom on a Windows10 phone would be just as limited as it is on iPhones and iPads.

There have been rumors that Apple would eventually merge OSX and iOS.

Ubuntu is all about convergence.

DGStinner wrote in post #17395560
Universal apps doesn't mean you'd get same functionality across devices. It allows software developers to create one application which tailors itself to the destination device. Lightroom on a Windows10 phone would be just as limited as it is on iPhones and iPads.

There have been rumors that Apple would eventually merge OSX and iOS.

^^^^

That would be great, but I'm very skeptical.

I fail to understand the hesitation on the part of hardware and software manufacturers to bring us full computing power in all devices (or at least give us that choice).

Why?

I suppose there are a couple reasons:

1. They make more money by offering different devices with different platforms (and in that case a "universal" app is not at all universal).

2. They don't think there is a demand for it (which may or may not be true. I don't know. But I do know of at least one person who demands it, and I doubt that he is the only one).

3. They haven't thought about it (which I find unlikely due to the fact that they are much smarter than I am in the filed of personal computing).

4. They are stubborn, and are often the ones who answer questions with a question like, "why would you want to?"


But they can no longer use this as a reason: "We can't fit a real computer into a handheld device."

They actually can. And they have (there are phones with 2.3ghz processors and 3gb of RAM).

They (Apple and Microsoft) need to provide their desktop OS in handheld devices (or at least offer it as a choice).


My view: Mobile operating systems are the Duplo blocks (those big ones that don't present a choking hazard), and desktop operating systems are real Legos.

The biggest limitations which are preventing phones from being able to store and run the exact same applications as desktops and laptops are storage capacity and battery life. The RAM allows more applications to be running in the background without slowing down the rest of the phone's operation.

It would cost several thousands of dollars, even after subsidization, for a tablet or phone with 256GB or more of storage (unless you wanna go back to the days of swapping out disks, or in today's case it would be microSD cards, for different applications) AND enough battery life to last more than 8 hours. It would probably weigh just as much as a laptop anyway.

EOS-Mike wrote in post #17396031
I fail to understand the hesitation on the part of hardware and software manufacturers to bring us full computing power in all devices (or at least give us that choice).

Why?

I suppose there are a couple reasons:

1. They make more money by offering different devices with different platforms (and in that case a "universal" app is not at all universal).

Every mobile operating system is free. OSX is free for upgrade. Windows 10 will be free to upgrade (for only the first year). You still have to purchase the computer, tablet or phone. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

I disagree that there are physical limitations.

There are already phones out there with 64-128gb of storage and 2-3 gb of RAM along with fairly decent processors.

The question is, can they be loaded with OSX or Microsoft Windows for desktop.


I want to run Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom on my phone. Currently there isn't a single phone that can run these programs.

There are, of course, small tablets that do this (I own one), and I love it. No iPad in existence can run Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop. No Android device in existence can run those apps.

And as of today, no phone in the world can run them.

We're two-thirds of the way there: Desktops/laptops run full applications. Tablets (some) can run full applications.

Who will bring it to the phone?

And here's why:

If your phone is a computer (a real computer with desktop OS) then you can put it in your pocket and use it to text, call, email, etc.

THEN, when you get somewhere, you simply place it on your desk (or keep it in your pocket/purse) and on your desk is a keyboard, mouse and monitor that links to your phone wirelessly (or plugs in).

It's a win-win (except, perhaps, for the companies that want you to buy all three devices, each with its own processor, ram, storage, etc.).


Apple
Google
Microsoft

The first to make a hand-held desktop-capable computer will eat up the market.

My iPhone and iPad can run Lighroom and Photoshop. Even with the smaller screensize, I have all the functionality I would need on a mobile device. Anything very drastic can wait until I'm back in front of the computer.

The idea of having everything stored and run locally is by definition inefficient. The software market is extremely fragmented, it works just not to the level our next generations are going to expect. Their is a solution, as soon as the USA catches up with internet speeds and latency we will be free to run all our things from one device. Once we gain network speed, bandwidth and faster latency we will rely on one high capacity device to be the center of everything and all our user devices will connect to it. Enterprise networks have been doing it for decades, have a super powerful server doing the heavy lifting and they front end users just input on low powered devices. With connecting all your devices to a centralized server You will be able to edit real time 8k video from your phone/tablet/virtual reality headset etc. The only device that will matter will be the one your connecting to. Now whether that device your connecting to is a personal server, a google server or a microsoft server doesn't matter (well it does but we wont explore that right now)

what im trying to get at is our technological lives are in a convergence state. Microsoft is trying to fill that void in our lives they started out with windows 8 then office 365 and now they are creating a real Multi platform OS with a multiplatform apps.

You can have the power in a mobile device but there are limits to the power due to size. The boards within these devices are dual lawyered. And they are already experiencing issues with electrons bouncing between circuits. The more space you have the less chance of this happening.

it's going to take a little while before you just have one device that you take every where. Do you really want Photoshop on your phone? Take a photo and use the camera or phone to upload to a cloud provider and then you while you should be taking photos your editing it. "Oh I'll just correct the white balance before I forget what it looks like" forgetting that you should have got it right in the camera in the first place.

If you had Photoshop on your phone it's not going to be the same interface that you would have on a PC with a 4K display. it's going to be a lot simpler because the size of the screen matters. Looking at what MS has shown the other day they have started to do the one app across may platforms and they are demonstrating with the apps they know best. Office and Windows.

This universal idea would be nice if developers get on board with the idea. In fact if it works the way MS says it will then they would be dump not to create such apps. Being able to work/view the one file no matter where you go is nice and to be honest it would be useful. However to me personally this has limited appeal. perhaps for work I could have a use but I like to disconnect when I am not at work. When I am out and about I don't take my tablet and the phone stays in the car.

And then their is the cloud. Sorry but the only person I trust with my data is myself. I don't want Google/MS/Apple to have their hands on my data. I don't trust them and I don't trust those that have an axe to grind. The recent examples of this is the attacks on xbox and playstation on xmas day. You are relying on the service that your paying for to be there. Someone that is bored might decided to hack the cloud service that you are paying for. Your data can be stolen from you and nothing you can do about it. This means that unifying apps doesn't mean a great deal when your not using a cloud.

I like Win10. I like the idea of apps across multi devices, you buy one app and you can have it on a desktop/tablet/phone. However I want to store my data myself (and yes that includes the risk of me having a failure and I'm ok with that) I don't want to carry my desktop around in my pocket. Some days I don't want to carry a phone.

As for mobile data, I don't have 4G at my home so I'm not going to be using that anytime soon.

Mark0159 wrote in post #17397348
Do you really want Photoshop on your phone? .

Yes, absolutely. The full version.

I realize the screen is a huge limitation, but what I'm talking about is a phone with desktop capability and an overlaying mobile platform for the simple stuff.

The phone could run full Photoshop, but in order to do so efficiently (and effectively), you would lay it on your desk at work and it would attach to a monitor, keyboard and mouse.

Run the full program on the phone. View it on the monitor.

Then pick up the phone, walk away, and use it as a mobile device with simpler apps.

For basic functions (web browsing, email, word processing, etc), it is somewhat possible now.
http://www.makeuseof.c​om …to-a-desktop-replacement/

For memory and cpu intensive tasks, like photo and video editing, it just isn't feasible. Lightroom and Photoshop work best with 8-16GB of RAM unless you go back a few versions. At this time, the CPU in phones isn't that powerful compared to desktops. If it was, you'd need a fan in the phone and a much bigger battery to even get more than a few hours of usage before requiring a charge.

If you feel that I'm completely wrong and the world is screaming for this ability and the large corporations refuse to listen, then I suggest you fill that need and reap the benefits.

Honestly look into Remote Desktop. If you want to work on Photoshop remotely on your phone look into the Microsoft remote desktop for pretty much every phone out there. Setup your computer at home to allow RDP and open the port on your router. Connect your phone to your home computer and you can run any application remotely from your phone. Windows server 2012 has even more functionality if you want to get crazy.

Works well with me I use it when I go on vacation. I setup Bit torrent sync to sync my photos overnight then hop on to Remote Desktop and edit/view them. This is all done with a Note 2 or MS surface 2. Its very responsive. I VPN into my network for added security and it works very well for me.