70D or 7DmkII???

Hi guys,

I have not owned a 1.6 crop camera since I sold my 7D a couple of years ago. But when I am out with the 200-400 I sometimes find the need for a little more "reach" and cropping my 1Dx files down to 1.6x gives me around 7MP. I even with worse IQ 20MP allows some flexibility with PP so I am considering a new body. From what I have seen:

7DII suffers from AF problems, could be a bad batch?
IQ seems to be the same, as does the sensor?
70D offers touch screen focusing for video ( a plus for me who is cack at MF)
70d is 50% of the price.... 7DII is yet to drop in price and I will have need in the next 2 weeks...

I am looking for views from people who have owned both. Can the 70D focus BIF? Is IQ same?

Cheers.

Neilyb wrote in post #17395821
7DII suffers from AF problems, could be a bad batch? IQ seems to be the same, as does the sensor?

My personal POV based on my personal copy of the 7DmkII is that it is an excellent camera for putting the maximum number of pixels on a target for whatever your value of lens and distance happens to be. It certainly has better high ISO performance than previous crop-factor bodies I've used. It's AF system is excellent, as far as I can tell so far, but it's unlikely to be as good as a 1DX - for both technical reasons (number of independent processor modules) and marketing reasons (if Canon really could have made the 7D2 perform better for AF than the 1DX, would that really help their total profit?).

Some people have had real AF problems with their 7D2s. No doubt in my mind about that. But my guess (it's only a guess) is that the problem(s) are fairly rare, and nothing I've personally experienced. I'd simply buy one and see how good it is or isn't. I did, and mine seems pretty good to me! As a 50D early-adopter I looked at the 7D, then the 60D and the 70D. If I were doing video I'd likely go with the 70D as the pick of the bunch. The 60D would have been good. But I chose "none of the above" until the 7D2 came out a I bought that, because I do stills, not video, and the AF system is enough of an advance that I could see (and now have seen) an actual benefit fro buying a more recent body in terms of the 7D2. (BTW, for what I bought it for, the 7D2 and 100-400II are a marriage made somewhere near Heaven.)

...Mike

mfunnell wrote in post #17395920
My personal POV based on my personal copy of the 7DmkII is that it is an excellent camera for putting the maximum number of pixels on a target for whatever your value of lens and distance happens to be. It certainly has better high ISO performance than previous crop-factor bodies I've used. It's AF system is excellent, as far as I can tell so far, but it's unlikely to be as good as a 1DX - for both technical reasons (number of independent processor modules) and marketing reasons (if Canon really could have made the 7D2 perform better for AF than the 1DX, would that really help their total profit?).

Some people have had real AF problems with their 7D2s. No doubt in my mind about that. But my guess (it's only a guess) is that the problem(s) are fairly rare, and nothing I've personally experienced. I'd simply buy one and see how good it is or isn't. I did, and mine seems pretty good to me! As a 50D early-adopter I looked at the 7D, then the 60D and the 70D. If I were doing video I'd likely go with the 70D as the pick of the bunch. The 60D would have been good. But I chose "none of the above" until the 7D2 came out a I bought that, because I do stills, not video, and the AF system is enough of an advance that I could see (and now have seen) an actual benefit fro buying a more recent body in terms of the 7D2. (BTW, for what I bought it for, the 7D2 and 100-400II are a marriage made somewhere near Heaven.)

...Mike

I am leaning now to the 7D, thanks for the confirmation. I Europe we can always send goods back if ordered via internet.

Neilyb wrote in post #17395821
Can the 70D focus BIF?

Here's a couple of examples from the 70D and 100-400 v1. I hope to see these in my VF with the v2.

I've got the 70D and before I bought it I was debating between the two also. I played around with Both and for how similar they were I decided to save the money and get the 70D over the 7D MKII. What I've noticed with focus issues on both was mainly due to the complex focus systems more so than there being an actual problem with the camera's auto focus.

Also to consider is the control layout. The 7DII still has the joystick system for controlling AF points, among other things. I actually really do not like the control layout on the 60/70/6D bodies compared to either the 50D or earlier or 7/5D bodies. This system is similar to the 1 series too. I also have not trouble with the controls on the xxxD/Rebel series of cameras. I wish I could afford a 7DII/100-400II/1.4×II converter. Or of course the 200-400.

Alan

There is not a systemic AF problem with the 7D MKII. A handful of people have apparently gotten defective ones (which have been repaired or replaced by Canon). The vast majority seem to be good. What was said about the control layout is true. I have come to the 7D2 from a 50D and the transition is almost seamless and, coming from a 1DX, you should even adjust to the complex AF system faster than most.

The 7D2 is now my primary camera. I considered the 70D but, since I hang on to them for a long time, wanted the very newest technology as well as the rock solid construction. One unexpected discovery is how much can be done to the RAW files in post. They have much more potential than my 50D.

Get the 7D2. It will pair perfectly with your 1DX. A Canon rep told me recently that it's a "mini 1DX".

I have a 70D and am considering adding a 7D2 for sports/action/BIF. The sample images I've seen at 6400 also seem to show the 7D2 is a bit cleaner. Both the autofocus and frame rate is faster on the 7D2.

Touch screen focus is available in still (in Liveview) and video. Focus tracking is also available in video. I know that pro videographers mostly use manual focus. Not being a pro with a separate person working focus, these features are important enough to me that I wouldn't replace the 70D with a 7D2. I also find the articulating LCD to be very useful for low and high camera position shots.

Looking at your blog I would think the 7D2 is a better match for the type of photography you enjoy. The 70D is not a slouch, IMO. But I think the 7D2's speed and slightly better ISO will be much more useful to you than the video and Liveview focus improvements.

Neilyb wrote in post #17395989
I am leaning now to the 7D, thanks for the confirmation. I Europe we can always send goods back if ordered via internet.

I just got a 7D2 and shooting it with a 5D3. The controls are so similar it makes it a great pair to shoot with. I expect the same applies to the 1DX.

While the 7D2 was still a rumor, I picked up a 70D and liked it quite a bit. It was quite a step up for me over the 60D, though others feel differently. My goal for a while now has been to better equip myself to photograph birds to my own satisfaction. The 70D was a step in the right direction.

That said, when the 7D2 came out, I waited for the first few waves of pre-orders to be filled then ordered one. I had a bit of a learning curve but several people here pointed me in the right direction and I have to say..... I'm thrilled. The auto focus and the faster frames per second are working very well for me. I like the touch screen on the 70D, but truth be told, when you use something for a few minutes, your brain adjusts. I can go from one to the other without a hitch.

I might eventually sell the 70D. I keep thinking I'll need the tilt screen for macros or shots near the ground so I keep putting off the decision.....and the used prices keep dropping.

The 70D can BIF fine...

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/oBkS​WH

Well guys, I did pick up a 7DII and managed to use it. I am not completely impressed. I tried to manually adjust the AF with my 500 f4. Using live view focus (ultra quick and impressive) I get sharp test chart. Regardless of MAF setting I cannot get it as sharp as using those dual-pixels.
Having been out in the field I can honestly say my shots suck. I have used crop bodies since the 350D up to the 7D1 and never struggled this much to get a sharp shot. In low contrast situations and lighting it is just sloppy, the focus is in the right place but the shot it not sharp. Then the sun comes out and I get 1 sharp shot but the next 2 or 3 are again in focus but not sharp... I am on a solid tripod with my Uniqball. My 1Dx and TC nails the shots, my 7DII and no TC does not.

My thoughts. Is 20MP causing the problem, because any movement can cause an unsharp image far more easily than the same pixels count on full frame, is that why I see focused images that are not sharp? Could be, but I never had this problem when shooting the 18MP 7D. Even so, upping the ISO to get a good speed should solve this problem, but it does not, even shooting something static like a focus chart.

So I will be sending the camera back. I could send it to Canon but I really wanted to take this to Norway in a couple of weeks. Rather I will use my 1D4 for the crop camera and wait until canon release a crop cam with 15-16MP...

Neilyb wrote in post #17405262
Well guys, I did pick up a 7DII and managed to use it. I am not completely impressed. I tried to manually adjust the AF with my 500 f4. Using live view focus (ultra quick and impressive) I get sharp test chart. Regardless of MAF setting I cannot get it as sharp as using those dual-pixels.
Having been out in the field I can honestly say my shots suck. I have used crop bodies since the 350D up to the 7D1 and never struggled this much to get a sharp shot. In low contrast situations and lighting it is just sloppy, the focus is in the right place but the shot it not sharp. Then the sun comes out and I get 1 sharp shot but the next 2 or 3 are again in focus but not sharp... I am on a solid tripod with my Uniqball. My 1Dx and TC nails the shots, my 7DII and no TC does not.

My thoughts. Is 20MP causing the problem, because any movement can cause an unsharp image far more easily than the same pixels count on full frame, is that why I see focused images that are not sharp? Could be, but I never had this problem when shooting the 18MP 7D. Even so, upping the ISO to get a good speed should solve this problem, but it does not, even shooting something static like a focus chart.

So I will be sending the camera back. I could send it to Canon but I really wanted to take this to Norway in a couple of weeks. Rather I will use my 1D4 for the crop camera and wait until canon release a crop cam with 15-16MP...

That's an unfortunate situation. I wouldn't expect the higher resolution to contribute to lack of sharpness, unless whatever software you use to edit and view the images is having problems scaling for your display. I wonder if the difference in sharpness is different at 100%. Also, is there no part of the subject that is sharp, or is the 7D2 not focusing where it should be?

In lower contrast light, snow on the ground with a white bright sky, I have decent shutter speeds, tripod and ball head... solid basically. I tried on a non moving subject, live view AF... SHARP. No amount of MAFing could get a shot that sharp. Tried a different lens. Same problem. OK.
So I cannot reach optimum sharpness but can i get detailed shots? Like I say in diffused light I struggled but some shots are "acceptable". When the sun came out I could get considerably sharper images... but only 1 in a burst of 4 or 5. I set the camera to stealth mode with 4 fps, so the AF has ample time to work. Also tried slow and fast servo speeds... and single shot (NEVER FOCUS AF mode or whatever it is).

Now the shots which are not sharp are just that, focused but lacking detail. Like atmospherics, but at -2° with snow on the ground shooting at 8M or so I am pretty certain it is not that. Especially as problems occur when the sun is not there. So I have OOF areas front and back but in between no detail on any plane. Kind of odd. Like the lens is not aligned but it works with my 1Dx, 1D4 and was perfectly good with my 7D and 5D3. Shame. seems I am better off with 1Dx and 1.4TC. Was looking forward to shooting golden eagles with it, but will not risk it.

At 100% on the camera you can see the problems, so it is not LR or DPP.

This is the exact reason I’m scared to even think of buying one of these new bodies..