Photographer Etiquette

Thoughts?


http://www.birdsasart-blog.com …ture-you-gotta-read-this/


http://www.onthewingph​otography.com …s-and-the-general-public/

dasher108 wrote in post #17404941
This is a c&p from a local forum.... thoughts?

My thoughts?

A complaint typed on a photography forum is not going to change human nature. Some folks just don't have tact or social awareness.

For the original poster, unless they've gotten a permit for designated area, what makes a public spot less public for other park visitors than for the photographer? Although it might polite for them to give the photographer the right-a-way, the photographer demanding ownership of a public area is equally wrong. As for the example about the picnic, when an organization has a picnic, they usually have to get a permit and pay an insurance fee for a designated area if they want to claim that area If just a couple or even a family is having a picnic, the rest of the public is free to walk thru or set up next to it or even in the middle of it. Isnt that the point, that one person's right doesnt trump another person's right. It could be said that the publc interrupted the right of the photographer. But, it could also be said the photographer interrupted the public's right to enjoy the space

"Public place" .. They've got the right? Yes.

Never confuse "rights" with "manners and etiquette". Maybe the photographer should find a place that's more secluded.

Just to clarify, the original c&p is not mine.

I find it audacious that a photographer sets up "camp" in a public place and expects people to then behave like it is his private space. What if we all did that, for whatever purpose?

It would be nice if people weren't rude, but they (we) are. Not sure how to fix that.

I think some people understand that rights and being right are two completely different things. If I were to go somewhere, spend the time, money and effort to set up what equates to a studio in the wild (using the bird example), I would be a little bothered by someone stomping around trying to get a shot while I was there for a specific reason.
Let's take this a different way. You hire a model, MUA and hair stylist and take this group to the local park for a shoot. Would you be ok with someone with a P&S coming in and getting between you and the model. What if they just distract the model (who for his argument is not professional) who starts looking at the other shooter when you are trying to get "the shot". To me, it is the same thing. Yes the birds are your models, the gear set up is your studio and you get bombarded by opportunists who barge into your scene.
As mentioned, being a public place, they may have the right, but it still does not make it right to interrupt someone doing something.
Now if they waited until I was obviously not shooting, and asked if they could take a few shots, I would likely oblige. But interrupting me, or getting between me and the subject is likely to illicit a pretty negative response.

sirquack wrote in post #17405558
Now if they waited until I was obviously not shooting, and asked if they could take a few shots, I would likely oblige. But interrupting me, or getting between me and the subject is likely to illicit a pretty negative response.

I have a very neutral view of the original post, if anything I lean just slightly to 'what gives you the right to 'take possession' of a piece real state in a public park in to turn into a private studio.

I am not sure if I personally would approach this individual and ask if I could take a few shots of a bird only after he is finished his 'studio shoot'

That being said, I certainly would not bust in and spoil his work. I think the approach of labeling all others as 'bird paparazzi' certainly does not gain any favors with his side of the debate.

Kinda reminds me of a situation I was in once (although it was unintentional). A restored steam locomotive was being shown to the public and would be traveling down a stretch of track in the country. My dad, wife and I all jumped in the car to ride up the tracks a bit to find a spot to watch it pass. We found a small public gravel pull in with a dirt service road running near to the tracks. We pulled into the area, crossed the tracks and drove down the service road a small bit until we found a nice scenic location to watch the train pass (taking photos was not our intention). We arrived just moments before the train did.....just as the train was coming into site, I turned around to see about 10 photographers set up on the hill about 50 yards behind us. We had to have totally ruined their shot with our car parked and us standing right in between them and the train tracks just where the train would come into site through the trees. I felt awful although it was a completely innocent mistake. Had we known they were set up there waiting, we would've chose a different location. The photographers had obviously parked in a different location as to not have their cars in the photo...hence, we didn't see their cars either.

OP, thanks for posting this. I understand that you are seeking our opinions on this issue. I believe that the person who wrote this complaint has unrealistic expectations about what to expect when using areas that are open to the public at large.

Just like the person who wrote that complaint, I am a bird photographer who has established and maintained photography set-ups in parks that are open to the public. When I do so, I understand that these parks are available to any who wish to enjoy them. I understand that anyone can come right up to "my" set-up and do whatever they choose to do, except for handling my equipment (my personal property that I brought into the park). When I choose to do my thing in a park that is open to the public, I do so with an understanding that I can not realistically expect to be left alone while photographing.

I do believe that it is quite inappropriate for other photographers to walk in on this guy's set-up while he is shooting.....sure, that is unethical and rude, but they do have the right to do so.

If I encountered this guy at a set-up, I would be very interested to see what he had coming in, but I would observe from a distance so as to not disturb his would-be subjects. I realize that I have the right to walk right in to his set-up, set up my tripod and camera, and shoot wherever I want to shoot from. But I would not do so because it would be rude. But one cannot expect everyone in a park to have the same idea of what is rude and what is acceptable......if you set up in a public area, you have to be realistic about your expectations of other people's behavior.

If I want to shoot set-ups without any interruptions or intrusions, then I get permission to establish set-ups on private land. It seems that the person who wrote that complaint should do the same.

Well said Tom. It's unfortunate that common courtesy isn't all that common.

While we do agee that the public has the right to use all of the space. Why isnt it just as, if not more rude and more inappropriate for the photographer to set up shop in the space. I get this is a photographers forum so perspectives may lean in that direction. But the photographer's presence, and setting up shop and expecting people to work around him is the rudest of the actions, almost as he felt entitled.

moose10101 wrote in post #17405512
"Public place" .. They've got the right? Yes.

Never confuse "rights" with "manners and etiquette". Maybe the photographer should find a place that's more secluded.

My thoughts exactly! They DO have the right to put their camera anywhere. In fact, they have the right to run up to the bird, make stupid noises and scare it off.
But, just because you have any given right, that doesn't mean you should use it all the time. I have the right to pick a fight with my boss - but I guess I shouldnt :P. There is a similar discussion about the right of free speech. A lot of media are using it to provoke a certain group in society. The right is there, but you have to accept the consequences.

Unfortunately for birders, they operate in a public place and situations like these are among the risks of photography. When I do city photography, my experiences are the exact opposite. When I was in London, I could walk among a huge crowd of people (near London Eye, for example) and when I whipped out my camera and pointed it at something, only one or two people would walk in front of my lens and everyone else avoided that, sometimes waiting until I was done.

The only thing we could do is lead by example, respect each other and the shots we want to take.

I would only consider that rude if a photographer is interfering with anyone or causing damage to the surroundings, being man-made, flora or fauna, or seriously interfered with other person's activities. Setting up a tripod on playground after school hours would be rather rude. Else you can ban everyone from walking on ANY grass or simply standing on any path for fear of interrupting anyone. We're a society, anyone gets to do their "thing" as long as no damage is done. I would image a lot of parks large enough to allow a photographer to set up and not interfere too much.

My thought on the c&p is that if the tog in question wants to have private use of public space he should arrange that with the park management/rangers and, if necessary pay a fee.