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Thread started 02 Feb 2015 (Monday) 21:09
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Shooting that hurts your image

 
ceriltheblade
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Apr 29, 2015 02:02 |  #16

out of curiosity - since I have been following the thread... what did the original poster actually do?
did it work out to your satisfaction?


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fk6065
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May 10, 2015 21:03 as a reply to  @ ceriltheblade's post |  #17

Well to update you since you asked. The other photographer who she has shot with and frequents these boards apparently saw this thread, showed it to her and she got very upset.

Needless to say I haven't heard from her since.




  
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tdlavigne
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May 10, 2015 21:21 |  #18

fk6065 wrote in post #17551253 (external link)
Well to update you since you asked. The other photographer who she has shot with and frequents these boards apparently saw this thread, showed it to her and she got very upset.

Needless to say I haven't heard from her since.

Problem solved! ;-)a

But seriously, reading your posts, and your OP...you didn't say anything terribly negative about the client; and you didn't out them publicly. You only asked how to approach working with them if they were going to cut corners, and how to handle credits. Not really anything wrong with that. So if they were butthurt enough over that to sever a relationship with you, you probably dodged a bullet. It's unlikely that if you either A) Asked to not be credited as it was hurting your overall image or B) Tried to convince her to invest a little more into her business, that she would have reacted any differently....so you'd be in the same position.

Let the "snitch" fauxtographer who ratted you out deal with it in the future.




  
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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May 10, 2015 22:01 |  #19

fk6065 wrote in post #17551253 (external link)
Well to update you since you asked. The other photographer who she has shot with and frequents these boards apparently saw this thread, showed it to her and she got very upset.

Needless to say I haven't heard from her since.

That sucks.

I keep a pretty low profile and sometimes think I should be more open about sharing here. I even avoid talking to other local guys about this place. This post reminds me that there are some shitty people out there.

Obviously that wasn't some great job you were dying to keep, but the tactics of the other photographer are petty and unprofessional.


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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May 10, 2015 22:04 |  #20

tdlavigne wrote in post #17551276 (external link)
Problem solved! ;-)a

But seriously, reading your posts, and your OP...you didn't say anything terribly negative about the client; and you didn't out them publicly. You only asked how to approach working with them if they were going to cut corners, and how to handle credits. Not really anything wrong with that. So if they were butthurt enough over that to sever a relationship with you, you probably dodged a bullet. It's unlikely that if you either A) Asked to not be credited as it was hurting your overall image or B) Tried to convince her to invest a little more into her business, that she would have reacted any differently....so you'd be in the same position.

Let the "snitch" fauxtographer who ratted you out deal with it in the future.

Right, but the client heard the words written not in a generic sense but rather directed at her. Human nature.


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tdlavigne
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May 10, 2015 22:16 as a reply to  @ Left Handed Brisket's post |  #21

Most people in my experience know when they're cheaping out on stuff or not applying themselves. For some it's based on purely financial/budgetary reasons (ie. they simply can't afford to invest more, no matter how much they want to), or they just don't care are are content with doing the bare minimum. So if I had to take a guess this person either just can't (I won't go into the dozen or so reasons why it probably isn't a client worth keeping) or refuses to because they don't care.

Yes, he commented on the models being overweight and not pretty, but he's a photographer and he's shooting "Models"; meaning they're judged almost solely on their look and their ability to parlay that look into the ability to market products for a company. Calling them overweight is probably the nicest thing someone would ever say to them in the professional environment. If an "agency" owner can't accept criticism of her models with respect to what they're trying to market themselves as then I'd question the legitimacy of their agency to begin with.

Someone suggesting the importance of makeup/hair is only trying to make her models look better, so to deny that is to deny your models the ability to best present themselves to potential clients, and in addition: deny yourself commissions from jobs your models won't book.




  
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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May 10, 2015 22:26 |  #22

tdlavigne wrote in post #17551351 (external link)
Most people in my experience know when they're cheaping out on stuff or not applying themselves. For some it's based on purely financial/budgetary reasons (ie. they simply can't afford to invest more, no matter how much they want to), or they just don't care are are content with doing the bare minimum. So if I had to take a guess this person either just can't (I won't go into the dozen or so reasons why it probably isn't a client worth keeping) or refuses to because they don't care.

Yes, he commented on the models being overweight and not pretty, but he's a photographer and he's shooting "Models"; meaning they're judged almost solely on their look and their ability to parlay that look into the ability to market products for a company. Calling them overweight is probably the nicest thing someone would ever say to them in the professional environment. If an "agency" owner can't accept criticism of her models with respect to what they're trying to market themselves as then I'd question the legitimacy of their agency to begin with.

Someone suggesting the importance of makeup/hair is only trying to make her models look better, so to deny that is to deny your models the ability to best present themselves to potential clients, and in addition: deny yourself commissions from jobs your models won't book.

I agree. But anyone is more likely to be able to accept criticism one on one, not in a public forum. Especially when it is not specifically requested.

In this particular case she might have been just as upset if confronted with the reality of her bad decisions, but thanks to "that guy" we will never know.


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sspellman
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May 11, 2015 00:50 |  #23

I agree that you should be very concerned with a client who eagerly credits you for work when you do not support their style. Most people will assume that this type of work is the best you can do and represents your personal taste, which will quickly exclude you from better mainstream work.

There has been an increase in nonstandard models and agencies on FB only because its free. Its my industry experience that there is almost zero paid work for plus size models and any agency could never survive off commissions from real clients.


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tdlavigne
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May 11, 2015 01:27 |  #24

sspellman wrote in post #17551482 (external link)
I agree that you should be very concerned with a client who eagerly credits you for work when you do not support their style. Most people will assume that this type of work is the best you can do and represents your personal taste, which will quickly exclude you from better mainstream work.

There has been an increase in nonstandard models and agencies on FB only because its free. Its my industry experience that there is almost zero paid work for plus size models and any agency could never survive off commissions from real clients.

Just a minor correction if you will, but "plus size" models and plus size models are two different things. What society is trying to convince us is healthy, full, "plus" size is one thing.... and true, plus size models is a completely different thing. Their agencies are of just as high a standard as your typical fashion or print models, and they often book fairly big jobs for their girls. Ex. Myla Dalbesio for CK: https://www.google.com …n+klein&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 (external link)

Granted she's on the smaller end of what the fashion and commercial/print industry would consider plus (along with Robyn Lawley who was in SI Swim issue not too long ago), but even at the other end you've got uber-famous (and probably wealthier than any on this forum as a result) Ashley Graham. I knew a couple plus models from when I started working with agencies, and even at the bottom of the proverbial totem pole in terms of getting work/popularity they were still making probably 50k a year. Not too bad when you basically work 10-15hrs a week. Now imagine if you're Graham's bookers, charging 20% to the client, and then taking 20% from Ashley...and figure she's making maybe $250k/year conservatively. They just made 100k on someone they don't even have to shop around (again, because she's popular).

Now, consider those girls I knew personally at 50k, the agency is still making 20k a year (per girl at 50k), to basically field phone calls and set up castings, and occasionally fax some forms/contracts between the two parties (client and model). Not too bad. So technically there's plenty of money in plus modeling...and that amount will likely rise even higher with society being force fed this "skinny or fit is ugly" mantra. The difference is, if you google some of those models (Graham, Lawley, Dalbesio, Bidot, Runk, and before she lost the weight Renn who was probably the "it girl" of plus modeling for half a decade) you'll see that there's likely a difference in what the avg FB/IG agency offers, or the average "curvy" girl in the drive through at Taco Bell can offer, vs a real, bonafide plus model.

Another reason why I don't think it was a big deal to be honest and let the client in this case know that you'd prefer not to be credited....because let's be honest, it wasn't likely to really get any photographer anywhere (shooting generic rap video models without a team in his words), and would likely only serve to put out a large amount of subpar work that might cost him as much work as it got him.




  
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ceriltheblade
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May 12, 2015 01:05 |  #25

while it seems that you are not upset by the outcome
i am supposing that you knew that the other photographer frequents these forums and +/- knows your forum user name

which begs the question - why did you ask it in a forum if there was a possibility that it may get back to the emplyer you mentioned?
granted there was no name
and no identifying statements for us who are not in your same direct circle
but still
why even chance something like that?

did you want to passively pass your message to the emplyer?

this management of the question is odd to me.


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Nathan
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Post edited over 6 years ago by Nathan. (2 edits in all)
     
May 13, 2015 15:43 |  #26

For what it's worth, the comments below highlighted in red weren't very tactful and I can understand why she was upset after seeing the post. Even if she was not identified and despite the apparent thicker skin models and people in the business should have, these comments were pretty unprofessional. Sometimes better to choose your words or have your conversation in a less public place.

fk6065 wrote in post #17412680 (external link)
I have a client I have worked with a few times in the past. She took a little hiatus and now is back modeling & trying to run her own modeling agency. She fancies herself & her corporation as some bootyliscious, hip hop looking, Beyoncé wanna be.

She recruits woman who want to model but have no experience.

She pays me for each model I shoot and the money is good not great.

She refuses to hire a MUA and it really shows.

Here is my dilemma; She has let herself go, weight gain, blemishes, and unclean hair. The models she recruits are very overweight, and not to sound shallow very unattractive with no experience in front of the camera.

I don't mind shooting any of them and helping them out as I don't want to hurt there feelings.

But now she is crediting me for the photos on her website and social media. I can't help but think this is going to hurt my reputation and business.

I don't want to give up a steady paying customer but I am worried about the damage it will do to my business.


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Shooting that hurts your image
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