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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Feb 2015 (Thursday) 07:12
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OFFICIAL : 5DS and 5DS R Announced

 
Mornnb
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Mar 23, 2015 00:20 |  #901

David Arbogast wrote in post #17487524 (external link)
Three painful immutable facts:
1. Canon won't improve DR
2. Nikon won't make exceptional tilt-shifts
3. Sony won't make a lossless raw file

Don't get your hopes up.

Of these 3 issues, Sony's is by far the less significant one.


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Shadowblade
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Mar 23, 2015 00:55 |  #902

David Arbogast wrote in post #17487524 (external link)
Three painful immutable facts:
1. Canon won't improve DR
2. Nikon won't make exceptional tilt-shifts
3. Sony won't make a lossless raw file

Don't get your hopes up.

Sony has a lossless RAW file. They just haven't used it in their E-mount cameras.

Hopefully this changes with the pro-oriented A9.




  
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jocau
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Mar 23, 2015 02:58 |  #903

Shadowblade wrote in post #17487606 (external link)
Sony has a lossless RAW file. They just haven't used it in their E-mount cameras.

Hopefully this changes with the pro-oriented A9.

In the past there have only been 3 Sony cameras which offered uncompressed RAW files in addition to the cRAW files (lossy compression) i.e. the Sony Alpha 700 (DSLR-A700), the Sony Alpha 850 (DSLR-A850) and the Sony Alpha 900 (DSLR-A900). All three are (very) old models, so I don't have much faith in Sony offering uncompressed RAW as an additional file format.


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Neilyb
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Mar 23, 2015 03:22 |  #904

Mornnb wrote in post #17487577 (external link)
Of these 3 issues, Sony's is by far the less significant one.

The Sony loss-less RAW file request will no doubt be covered at some point. People called for a full frame mirrorless camera when Nikon and Canon stuffed up... Sony did it. They did it and allowed people to use their current lenses, via adapter. They listened to the market. If they think more people will buy their cameras if the RAW file quality increased, then they will no doubt do it. I do not understand it has taken so long, but i am not a marketing team. Likely they can do it via firmware, more likely they will only add it to a new camera.


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Mar 23, 2015 04:59 |  #905

Neilyb wrote in post #17487710 (external link)
The Sony loss-less RAW file request will no doubt be covered at some point. People called for a full frame mirrorless camera when Nikon and Canon stuffed up... Sony did it. They did it and allowed people to use their current lenses, via adapter. They listened to the market. If they think more people will buy their cameras if the RAW file quality increased, then they will no doubt do it. I do not understand it has taken so long, but i am not a marketing team. Likely they can do it via firmware, more likely they will only add it to a new camera.

They were listening to the market, could well be. But telling from the last few years theyre always stopping to listen to us, as they found they made enough profit, thinking nobody would change the system which means they can proceed slower or in their own taste...


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David ­ Arbogast
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Mar 23, 2015 05:17 |  #906

Shadowblade wrote in post #17487606 (external link)
Sony has a lossless RAW file. They just haven't used it in their E-mount cameras.

Hopefully this changes with the pro-oriented A9.

That is precisely what I meant: they won't make a lossless raw file for their ILCE cameras.

I could be wrong, but I don't think they are crippling the raw file because (to date) e-mount cameras are for amateurs, and that it will change because the a9 will be designed for pros. Maybe you're right, but I will believe it when I see it.


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jonneymendoza
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Mar 23, 2015 05:22 |  #907

tvphotog wrote in post #17485983 (external link)
The lossy RAW images is a dealbreaker for me, regardless of DR. I will wait for the 5DR/S reviews and pictures.


Shadowblade wrote in post #17487606 (external link)
Sony has a lossless RAW file. They just haven't used it in their E-mount cameras.

Hopefully this changes with the pro-oriented A9.

sorry but having lossy raw files doesnt impact 90% of us in the grand scheme of things.

so long as you can still set WB/levels etc just like an uncompressed RAW file, it will be fine for most of us


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jonneymendoza
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Mar 23, 2015 05:28 |  #908

btw i went to this yesterday http://www.nhm.ac.uk …iPQtuxDqDGsvFPB​oChgfw_wcB (external link) and the shots were amazing.

Ironically many of the shots taken with a canon used some sort of flash/had good lighting available at the time or used multiple exposure bracketing to get decent DR while some of the Nikon ones looks great without such methods used


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Shadowblade
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Mar 23, 2015 05:39 |  #909

David Arbogast wrote in post #17487775 (external link)
That is precisely what I meant: they won't make a lossless raw file for their ILCE cameras.

I could be wrong, but I don't think they are crippling the raw file because (to date) e-mount cameras are for amateurs, and that it will change because the a9 will be designed for pros. Maybe you're right, but I will believe it when I see it.

It would be stupid not to.

They may have aimed them at amateurs, but the full-frame versions have picked up a huge professional following. Mainly among landscape and architectural photographers, but I know of at least two high-end wedding photography businesses here in Melbourne who have switched entirely to Sony.

And pros are a lot more demanding regarding the post-processability of files.




  
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Shadowblade
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Mar 23, 2015 05:45 |  #910

jonneymendoza wrote in post #17487777 (external link)
sorry but having lossy raw files doesnt impact 90% of us in the grand scheme of things.

so long as you can still set WB/levels etc just like an uncompressed RAW file, it will be fine for most of us

Most of us don't need ISO 6400
Most of us don't need 14-15 stops of DR
Most of us don't need 14fps
Most of us don't need 50MP
Most of us don't need to be able to track a hummingbird manoeuvring to evade a falcon

Cameras with top-of-the-line features are not designed for 'most of us' - they are designed for those with specific requirements. If I didn't have those requirements, I'd buy a cheaper camera.




  
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smythie
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Mar 23, 2015 05:47 |  #911

Shadowblade wrote in post #17487797 (external link)
Most of us don't need ISO 6400
Most of us don't need 14-15 stops of DR
Most of us don't need 14fps
Most of us don't need 50MP
Most of us don't need to be able to track a hummingbird manoeuvring to evade a falcon

Oh dear, what a camera that'd be... for 6 months until the next best thing came along


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Shadowblade
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Mar 23, 2015 05:49 |  #912

smythie wrote in post #17487799 (external link)
Oh dear, what a camera that'd be... for 6 months until the next best thing came along

Obviously I wouldn't expect all of those in the one camera.

More like 50MP/14 stops DR/lossless RAW in one camera, super-fast AF, high ISO and 14fps in another, aimed at completely different types of photography. When you're shooting at the limits, you need specialist tools, not a general-purpose, all-round camera.

Although, given how cheap storage is, I'd expect every camera to have lossless RAW.




  
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smythie
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Mar 23, 2015 05:59 |  #913

Shadowblade wrote in post #17487801 (external link)
Although, given how cheap storage is, I'd expect every camera to have lossless RAW.

absolutely. Though I didn't push my A7r hard enough to notice the difference, there's no excuse IMO for a body intended for methodical operation to not give up a bit of time in moving the extra data to the card that a lossless compression (or uncompressed file) would require.


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jonneymendoza
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Mar 23, 2015 06:14 |  #914

Shadowblade wrote in post #17487797 (external link)
Most of us don't need ISO 6400
Most of us don't need 14-15 stops of DR
Most of us don't need 14fps
Most of us don't need 50MP
Most of us don't need to be able to track a hummingbird manoeuvring to evade a falcon

Cameras with top-of-the-line features are not designed for 'most of us' - they are designed for those with specific requirements. If I didn't have those requirements, I'd buy a cheaper camera.

what are you smoking?

most of us do need high ISO, Good DR and good AF!

ffs how can u compare a lossy file in comparision to DR?

many photographers would take far better DR then lossly. come on man


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David ­ Arbogast
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Mar 23, 2015 06:17 |  #915

The 5DS and 5DS R are avaialable for pre-ordering today (March 23). Anyone going for it? How do you think the camera will sell?

I'm on the fence about it. Frustratingly, it now looks like Sony won't be announcing their 50 MP for quite some time now (if the latest rumor is true). From Sony Alpha Rumors:

I am very busy working on a whole bunch of rumors but let’s start with an important rumor correction. The highly trusted source who shared as first the 50MP camera rumor said that he misunderstood the release timing info he got directly from Sony. The 50MP camera is not going to be announced the next few weeks. But it’s definitely ready to be for sale within 2015. He said sorry to SAR readers for the wrong timing info but there was a miscommunication between Sony and him. The good news is that another source confirmed the camera will come this year and that indeed the Sony 50MP FF sensor has a very new design and will “easily” outperform the Canon 5ds sensor.

So, it looks like it's going to be a while before we have two 50 MP products to compare and choose from.


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OFFICIAL : 5DS and 5DS R Announced
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