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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Feb 2015 (Thursday) 07:12
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OFFICIAL : 5DS and 5DS R Announced

 
jonneymendoza
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Mar 23, 2015 06:27 |  #916

David Arbogast wrote in post #17487820 (external link)
The 5DS and 5DS R are avaialable for pre-ordering today (March 23). Anyone going for it? How do you think the camera will sell?

I'm on the fence about it. Frustratingly, it now looks like Sony won't be announcing their 50 MP for quite some time now (if the latest rumor is true). From Sony Alpha Rumors:

So, it looks like it's going to be a while before we have two 50 MP products to compare and choose from.

if its outperforms the 5ds, its game over for canon!


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Mar 23, 2015 06:41 as a reply to  @ post 17487820 |  #917

Sweet. This will leave plenty of time for hundreds more posts in the Sony subforum about how Canon bests Sony.


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RDKirk
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Mar 23, 2015 07:05 |  #918

Shadowblade wrote in post #17487363 (external link)
I'm going to stop complaining about DR when low-light photographers start accepting that ISO 1600 is more than enough low-light capability and sports photographers accept a 4fps camera. After all, I almost never see a need to go faster than ISO 400 (or anything above baseline for landscapes), while 4fps is more than fast enough for the things I shoot.

Not going to happen? ISO 1600 too restrictive for your photographic needs? It's the same with DR for myself and many other landscapers and architectural photographers (not so much studio, since they can control the light).

Just as you can't capture live music in dark venues at ISO 1600 with acceptable image quality, I can't capture high-contrast landscapes with an uneven horizon (precluding filters) with 12 stops of DR. And no amount of skill or technique can change that - it's a technical limitation, much like trying to get a colour print out of a black-and-white printer. And it's supremely disappointing that Canon, which delivered so much in the early days of the crossover from film (with the 1Ds3 and 5D2) hasn't progressed at all since then - at least in a way that landscape and non-action photographers care about.

And yet, miraculous sports shots were made at ASA 400 and 3.5 fps on the top cameras back when I was shooting sports. Pretty darned good live music, too--I've still got some early 70s shots of Donna Summer, Isaac Hayes, Marvin Gaye, and Dolly Parton in my portfolio,.




  
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RDKirk
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Mar 23, 2015 07:06 |  #919

Mornnb wrote in post #17487465 (external link)
No it was not. I'd take a 20MP camera with 14EV of dynamic range over a 50MP camera with 12EV.

Well, if you're going to start with 20mp as your base, then that's hardly a concession to resolution.




  
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jonneymendoza
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Mar 23, 2015 07:09 as a reply to  @ RDKirk's post |  #920

20mp is the norm. whats your point?


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RDKirk
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Mar 23, 2015 07:11 |  #921

jonneymendoza wrote in post #17487850 (external link)
20mp is the norm. whats your point?

The point is that's not a concession to resolution. If he had said "I'd go back to 12mp for 14 stops of DR," that would be a concession to resolution. 20mp is darned good resolution.




  
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Shadowblade
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Mar 23, 2015 07:57 |  #922

jonneymendoza wrote in post #17487818 (external link)
what are you smoking?

most of us do need high ISO,

Most published photos are taken at ISO 1600 or under, usually ISO 400 and under. The exceptions are in very specific fields (e.g. live music, indoor sports, news photojournalism).

Good DR

I've never heard an action photographer complain about lack of DR.

and good AF!

Only if you shoot action. Portrait, macro, studio, landscape and architectural photographers could care less.

ffs how can u compare a lossy file in comparision to DR?

many photographers would take far better DR then lossly. come on man

Ever tried to post-process star trails with an A7r? It's not pretty...




  
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mystik610
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Post edited over 4 years ago by mystik610.
     
Mar 23, 2015 08:02 |  #923

Pre-orders are up on BH. Anyone pre-ordering?


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Shadowblade
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Mar 23, 2015 08:03 |  #924

RDKirk wrote in post #17487846 (external link)
Not going to happen? ISO 1600 too restrictive for your photographic needs? It's the same with DR for myself and many other landscapers and architectural photographers (not so much studio, since they can control the light).

Just as you can't capture live music in dark venues at ISO 1600 with acceptable image quality, I can't capture high-contrast landscapes with an uneven horizon (precluding filters) with 12 stops of DR. And no amount of skill or technique can change that - it's a technical limitation, much like trying to get a colour print out of a black-and-white printer. And it's supremely disappointing that Canon, which delivered so much in the early days of the crossover from film (with the 1Ds3 and 5D2) hasn't progressed at all since then - at least in a way that landscape and non-action photographers care about.

And yet, miraculous sports shots were made at ASA 400 and 3.5 fps on the top cameras back when I was shooting sports. Pretty darned good live music, too--I've still got some early 70s shots of Donna Summer, Isaac Hayes, Marvin Gaye, and Dolly Parton in my portfolio,.

There will always be good shots, regardless of the technical capabilities of the camera.

The more pertinent question is, how many potentially great shots did you miss because you couldn't shoot in the dark and get acceptable image quality, or because the moment you wanted in an action sequence happened to fall between two frames as you were shooting at 3.5fps?

The same applies to landscapes and DR. Sure, there are plenty of good shots which could be captured because they had less than 8-12 stops of DR (the darkest few stops of pre-6D Canons are more-or-less unusable due to pattern noise), or because you could use a filter or bracket exposures. But there are many others which are missed, simply because the camera is unable to capture the brightest highlights and the darkest shadows in a single frame.




  
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Shadowblade
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Mar 23, 2015 08:04 |  #925

RDKirk wrote in post #17487855 (external link)
The point is that's not a concession to resolution. If he had said "I'd go back to 12mp for 14 stops of DR," that would be a concession to resolution. 20mp is darned good resolution.

Only if you've only ever shot Canon. And only if don't make large prints.

Nikon has had 36MP for three years now (with 14-15 stops of DR at that resolution), and even their entry-level full-frame SLRs have more than 20MP.




  
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Mar 23, 2015 08:13 |  #926

David Arbogast wrote in post #17487820 (external link)
The 5DS and 5DS R are avaialable for pre-ordering today (March 23). Anyone going for it? How do you think the camera will sell?

I'm on the fence about it. Frustratingly, it now looks like Sony won't be announcing their 50 MP for quite some time now (if the latest rumor is true). From Sony Alpha Rumors:

So, it looks like it's going to be a while before we have two 50 MP products to compare and choose from.

Sonyalpharumors also seems to confirm that the new 50mp camera is not the a7rII and that it will be released soon. If the a7rII has added the same improvements as the a7II, I just may get that body and pass on the 50mp one. I may just "settle" for 36mp. ;-)a


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mystik610
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Mar 23, 2015 08:20 |  #927

navydoc wrote in post #17487915 (external link)
Sonyalpharumors also seems to confirm that the new 50mp camera is not the a7rII and that it will be released soon. If the a7rII has added the same improvements as the a7II, I just may get that body and pass on the 50mp one. I may just "settle" for 36mp. ;-)a

36MP, but small body, in body image stabilization, and more DR. Worthwhile trade-off IMO!


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Mar 23, 2015 08:21 |  #928

Shadowblade wrote in post #17487897 (external link)
Most published photos are taken at ISO 1600 or under, usually ISO 400 and under. The exceptions are in very specific fields (e.g. live music, indoor sports, news photojournalism).

I've never heard an action photographer complain about lack of DR.

Only if you shoot action. Portrait, macro, studio, landscape and architectural photographers could care less.

Ever tried to post-process star trails with an A7r? It's not pretty...


Usually i dont get in in such discussions as i dont want to go to deep in unnecessary talking, but the argument about startrails comes up so many times in context with the A7R and its lossy RAW. Tbh, this is one specific case where the A7R might bad (i dont exactly know as i dont shoot startrails because i find it looks so damn ugly) but the A7R excells in 10 other categories. Now take me as an example, i never shoot startrails and dont plan to do so in future so for me the discussion and blaming the A7R because it has lossy RAW which is mostly only seen in startrails which is anyways a very specific niche is just a joke IMO.


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RDKirk
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Mar 23, 2015 08:24 |  #929

Shadowblade wrote in post #17487908 (external link)
Only if you've only ever shot Canon. And only if don't make large prints.

Nikon has had 36MP for three years now (with 14-15 stops of DR at that resolution), and even their entry-level full-frame SLRs have more than 20MP.

I'm making 30x40 loosely posed group shots that resolve eyelashes with a Canon 5DII.




  
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Shadowblade
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Mar 23, 2015 08:31 |  #930

davidfarina wrote in post #17487932 (external link)
Usually i dont get in in such discussions as i dont want to go to deep in unnecessary talking, but the argument about startrails comes up so many times in context with the A7R and its lossy RAW. Tbh, this is one specific case where the A7R might bad (i dont exactly know as i dont shoot startrails because i find it looks so damn ugly) but the A7R excells in 10 other categories. Now take me as an example, i never shoot startrails and dont plan to do so in future so for me the discussion and blaming the A7R because it has lossy RAW which is mostly only seen in startrails which is anyways a very specific niche is just a joke IMO.

Not just star trails - they're just an obvious example. You can also sometimes see it in long grass, hair or other situations where you have long, thin, high-contrast edges. Sure, it's not a major problem in the majority of shots. But, when it shows up, it makes you really wish they had gone for uncompressed or lossless RAWs and completely avoided the problem, for the price of a few extra megabytes.




  
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