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Thread started 25 Feb 2006 (Saturday) 15:40
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Very strange result with 350D

 
jngo
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Feb 27, 2006 14:44 |  #16

accidental shots are great aren't they?




  
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MiG82
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Feb 28, 2006 03:13 as a reply to  @ jngo's post |  #17

How about the fact that the water drop is a non rigid free body? It is a mode of vibration (hence the steady period) due to the exchange of energy between surface tension and kinetic energy
When the drop jumps out of the water it is stretched out. Surface tension tries to pull it into a sphere (least surface area) and in the process gives the back of the drop a velocity relative to the front. Then it overshoots the spherical shape and goes flatish. Again the surface tension tries to pull it into a sphere. But it overshoots... and so on.
So the changing shape is reflecting sunlight at regular intervals. If the drop's journey lasted longer the motion would eventually dampen out.

It's a very common sort of phenomenon, but capturing it like this is very special. Nature and physics at its best (well, pretty good anyway).
It's a nice change to see an interesting topic.


Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling in the mud with a pig. After a few hours you realise that he likes it.
20D Σ: 10-20 EX, 24-70 EX, 70-300 APO, 100-300 F4 EX, 1.4x EX Canon: 50 F1.8, G3, BG-E2 Manfrotto: 685B, 486RC2 Pentax: Spotmatic II, Super Takumar 50 F1.4

  
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Matatazela
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Feb 28, 2006 08:26 |  #18

The miniscus of the droplet - that is the 'skin' of water held together by the cohesion of the water molecules - is altering shape harmonically, ie stretching into a shape that diffracts light to the camera lens in a rhythmic manner. Think of it as a very thin balloon, changing shape because of the momentum of water inside it...

Very neat capture!


:lol:

  
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rdsmith3
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Feb 28, 2006 08:44 as a reply to  @ post 1233209 |  #19

I am new here, and just a beginner, but I humbly suggest that the branch and the drop image are related.

Is the sun coming from the right in the picture? If the branch was moving because of a breeze, it could be moving up and down in a rhythmic pattern. This rhythmic pattern of the branch intermittently blocked the sun's light on the drop, causing the stroboscopic effect.


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lorandh
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Feb 28, 2006 09:17 as a reply to  @ MiG82's post |  #20

MiG82 wrote:
How about the fact that the water drop is a non rigid free body? It is a mode of vibration (hence the steady period) due to the exchange of energy between surface tension and kinetic energy
When the drop jumps out of the water it is stretched out. Surface tension tries to pull it into a sphere (least surface area) and in the process gives the back of the drop a velocity relative to the front. Then it overshoots the spherical shape and goes flatish. Again the surface tension tries to pull it into a sphere. But it overshoots... and so on.
So the changing shape is reflecting sunlight at regular intervals. If the drop's journey lasted longer the motion would eventually dampen out.

It's a very common sort of phenomenon, but capturing it like this is very special. Nature and physics at its best (well, pretty good anyway).
It's a nice change to see an interesting topic.

Good explanation MiG82, I think you may be right. I initially thought that there could be a continuous stream of droplets being deflected by that branch, like someone else mentioned, but then if you look at the 'pattern' the gaps between the droplets increase as it's falling down due to gravity, the push/pull force you mentioned, etc. Now I'm not even close to having a physics major, but if there were more than just one droplet wouldn't the pattern stay constant throughtout the frame?




  
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Jon
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Feb 28, 2006 10:35 as a reply to  @ MiG82's post |  #21

MiG82 wrote:
How about the fact that the water drop is a non rigid free body? It is a mode of vibration (hence the steady period) due to the exchange of energy between surface tension and kinetic energy
When the drop jumps out of the water it is stretched out. Surface tension tries to pull it into a sphere (least surface area) and in the process gives the back of the drop a velocity relative to the front. Then it overshoots the spherical shape and goes flatish. Again the surface tension tries to pull it into a sphere. But it overshoots... and so on.
So the changing shape is reflecting sunlight at regular intervals. If the drop's journey lasted longer the motion would eventually dampen out.

It's a very common sort of phenomenon, but capturing it like this is very special. Nature and physics at its best (well, pretty good anyway).
It's a nice change to see an interesting topic.

Even if there's a periodic shape change, which would imply that surface tension was a stronger force than the basic acceleration of the droplet(s), it wouldn't cause the water droplet to cease reflecting light; at best there'd be a diminution of the light, rather than a series of discrete "pulses".


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adas
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Feb 28, 2006 11:24 as a reply to  @ lorandh's post |  #22

Totally agree with MiG82.

lorandh wrote:
...but then if you look at the 'pattern' the gaps between the droplets increase as it's falling down due to gravity, the push/pull force you mentioned, etc. Now I'm not even close to having a physics major, but if there were more than just one droplet wouldn't the pattern stay constant throughtout the frame?

You partially answered your question. The droplet speed keeps rising due to gravity, starting from the top of that curved path. So the distance between the "flashes" would grow too.


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JoseC
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Feb 28, 2006 13:24 as a reply to  @ adas's post |  #23

Thanks all for your explanations and hypothesis.
I noticed that I had captured this strange phenomena when reviewing the pictures on my computer.
Next time I'll go back there to do more experiments.
I like very much the theory of the droplet changing shape and reflecting the light periodically.
Rgds
Jose


Jose

  
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davidfig
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Feb 28, 2006 17:04 |  #24

Neat accident, jose. Bet cha can't do it again. It will be different even if you can get close.


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PacAce
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Feb 28, 2006 18:37 as a reply to  @ Jon's post |  #25

Jon wrote:
Even if there's a periodic shape change, which would imply that surface tension was a stronger force than the basic acceleration of the droplet(s), it wouldn't cause the water droplet to cease reflecting light; at best there'd be a diminution of the light, rather than a series of discrete "pulses".

Very true, Jon. And it also doesn't explain the "multiple exposures" of the branch either. I'm sure the branch isn't fluctuating in shape from its surface tension. :)


...Leo

  
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MiG82
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Feb 28, 2006 20:37 as a reply to  @ Jon's post |  #26

Jon wrote:
Even if there's a periodic shape change, which would imply that surface tension was a stronger force than the basic acceleration of the droplet(s), it wouldn't cause the water droplet to cease reflecting light; at best there'd be a diminution of the light, rather than a series of discrete "pulses".

No. The gravity has no effect on the shape because it acts on every molecule equally. The effect of gravity is to have every molecule follow a parabolic path. The effect of surface tension and small scale momentum are superimposed on this motion.
An excellent example of the very effect we're talking about are videos from the vomit comet, the ISS and the space shuttle. They have messed around with blowing and releasing liquids and you get this exact effect happening. The blobs of liquid vibrate in their natural modes. Don't forget that in these cases there is plenty of gravity (more than 95% of earth surface gravity IIRC) , but the whole scene is in freefall, just like our water drop.

Matatazela wrote:
...shape that diffracts light to the camera lens...

It would be total internal reflection at work rather than diffraction (which is very different to reflection and refraction).


It is extremely unlikely that it is the branch casting shadows because the "shadows" are too regular. If you ran a giant comb through the path of the sun it could happen, but that's assuming the drop is always reflecting into the lens.


Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling in the mud with a pig. After a few hours you realise that he likes it.
20D Σ: 10-20 EX, 24-70 EX, 70-300 APO, 100-300 F4 EX, 1.4x EX Canon: 50 F1.8, G3, BG-E2 Manfrotto: 685B, 486RC2 Pentax: Spotmatic II, Super Takumar 50 F1.4

  
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ConradB
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Mar 01, 2006 23:55 as a reply to  @ jngo's post |  #27

Hey there.... Just took this photo with my 20D and found the same thing.



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Canon 20D
EF-S 18-55mm kit lens
EF 85mm f/1.8
EF 17-40mm f/4L
Manfrotto Tripod
Sony DSC-T1... just for fun ! ;)

Visit my gallery (external link)

  
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_SBradley_
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Mar 02, 2006 03:22 as a reply to  @ ConradB's post |  #28

ConradB wrote:
Hey there.... Just took this photo with my 20D and found the same thing.

Please could you post a 100% crop of that section for us to see? :)


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JoseC
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Mar 02, 2006 13:25 as a reply to  @ _SBradley_'s post |  #29

_SBradley_ wrote:
Please could you post a 100% crop of that section for us to see? :)

Yes, and also the exif data if possible.
Neat picture by the way.
Jose


Jose

  
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ConradB
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Mar 02, 2006 21:52 as a reply to  @ _SBradley_'s post |  #30

_SBradley_ wrote:
Please could you post a 100% crop of that section for us to see? :)

The full picture and exif are here (external link) on my gallery. I have to say I was surprised when I found this strange effect.

EOS 20d
LENS EF 85MM f/1.8
ISO 100
F/16
Shutter speed 8sec


Canon 20D
EF-S 18-55mm kit lens
EF 85mm f/1.8
EF 17-40mm f/4L
Manfrotto Tripod
Sony DSC-T1... just for fun ! ;)

Visit my gallery (external link)

  
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Very strange result with 350D
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