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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 11 Feb 2015 (Wednesday) 09:18
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Why do Pros Use Inferior Camera as a Back-up

 
Larry ­ Johnson
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Feb 14, 2015 08:29 |  #16

mclaren777 wrote in post #17431012 (external link)
It's the same reason you probably have a crummy spare tire in your car's trunk – it's really unlikely that you'll need it, but it's a great safety net to have if you do.

That's exactly the type of backwards logic that I'm talking about. A crappy camera won't get the job done right and neither will a crappy spare tire. I agree with RDKirk above, it's best [for a Pro] to have an identical as a back-up and keep it in the rotation, just as we used to do with spare tires.


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Feb 14, 2015 09:04 |  #17

I think it really depends on the event. If a camera fails while covering a kids football game, the parent doesn't get the picture. It can be re-shot the following game. If a camera fails during a wedding, the bride doesn't get her album. I think a pro shooting a once in a lifetime event should have a backup that is of similar quality, nearby and ready to go!




  
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Larry ­ Johnson
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Feb 14, 2015 09:09 |  #18

Wolfie01SS wrote in post #17431385 (external link)
I think it really depends on the event. If a camera fails while covering a kids football game, the parent doesn't get the picture. It can be re-shot the following game. If a camera fails during a wedding, the bride doesn't get her album. I think a pro shooting a once in a lifetime event should have a backup that is of similar quality, nearby and ready to go!

Exactly. That's why it's bizarre to me that companies reviewing cameras would describe a new camera as, not a pro camera, but maybe a good back-up for a pro. The Pro's back-up better be just as good as the go-to pro camera. This entire discussion is about the Pro, not the parent shooting their child's football game. I wouldn't expect the parent (or ametuer) to even have a back-up.


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Feb 14, 2015 09:41 |  #19

Larry Johnson wrote in post #17431387 (external link)
Exactly. That's why it's bizarre to me that companies reviewing cameras would describe a new camera as, not a pro camera, but maybe a good back-up for a pro. The Pro's back-up better be just as good as the go-to pro camera. This entire discussion is about the Pro, not the parent shooting their child's football game. I wouldn't expect the parent (or ametuer) to even have a back-up.

Well you can have a camera that has just-as-good picture quality, but nowhere-near-as-good ergonomics. Or it might require more post processing to get to the same results. Can you give an example of such a review? I cant recall any, personally.


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Feb 14, 2015 10:04 |  #20

If I had to choose between 5D3+5D or 2x5D2, I'd choose the later, just to have identical bodies and same battery types.

I think it's kind of like boxing. Do you train both left and right arms equally or concentrate more on one and hope you won't need to rely on the other?




  
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RDKirk
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Feb 14, 2015 10:51 |  #21

DoughnutPhoto wrote in post #17431431 (external link)
Well you can have a camera that has just-as-good picture quality, but nowhere-near-as-good ergonomics. Or it might require more post processing to get to the same results.

For a professional, both of those issues are economic hemorrhages that threaten his mortgage payment. Ergonomics and extra post-processing both measurably effect the bottom line to an extent that quickly overcomes the additional cost of the identical backup.

The point had been well mentioned before that if the cheaper camera were fully qualified, there would be no economic advantage to using the more expensive camera. The reason a pro buys a more expensive camera is because it will either solve problems that cost him money, or provides solutions that make him more money. Buying a backup that fails either is false economy for a professional.

For instance, when I upgraded from Canon 10D to 20D, then to 5D, then to 5DII, each time it was because the new camera permitted me to produce new and more lucrative portrait products. It was the 5DII that finally enabled me to abandon my medium format film cameras--and that was a HUGE economic benefit. Each upgrade actually paid for itself within weeks simply because I could offer more profitable products. I would not have bothered buying them (at least not immediately--not until my current cameras wore out) if not for that fact: They were going to make me money that the old cameras could not make.

Those products became staples in my repertoire--people hired me for them. If I had to shoot even two or three jobs in a year with the lesser cameras, I would not have been able to offer those products that had become my bread and butter and quickly lost more money that the difference in price of the cameras.


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Feb 14, 2015 11:37 |  #22

If your primary is reliable and you don't expect to have to use the back-up (often) and if your back-up has proven itself (perhaps as a primary earlier) to be reliable and capable of producing good work if needed, there is no need for duplicate bodies or the additional expense. And then there is the scenario in which each camera is has strengths that make it the primary in certain situations while it is a good back-up in other situations.

People work in many different ways and choose to spend money on equipment for many business and/or personal reasons. One size definitely does not fit all in this discussion.


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Larry ­ Johnson
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Feb 14, 2015 11:47 |  #23

DoughnutPhoto wrote in post #17431431 (external link)
Well you can have a camera that has just-as-good picture quality, but nowhere-near-as-good ergonomics. Or it might require more post processing to get to the same results. Can you give an example of such a review? I cant recall any, personally.

Here's the quote from Image-resource.com regarding the Canon 7D2 referring to the 7D2 being used as a backup to the 5D3 or 1DX.

"For all your subject tracking needs, be it for football, soccer or birds-in-flight, the 7D Mark II features Canon's AI Servo AF III for the same AF performance as the flagship 1D X. So, not only does the 7D Mark II provide much better autofocus performance over the 7D, it also allows current 5D3 and 1D X owners who are using a 7D Mark II as a secondary or backup camera to have their AF systems "in-sync" so to speak, with the same settings and customizations so it's trivial to switch between the cameras." full review http://www.imaging-resource.com …-ii/canon-7d-mark-iiA.HTM (external link)

Can you give me an example a camera that has just-as-good picture quality, but nowhere-near-as-good ergonomics?


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Larry ­ Johnson
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Feb 14, 2015 11:48 |  #24

frugivore wrote in post #17431475 (external link)
If I had to choose between 5D3+5D or 2x5D2, I'd choose the later, just to have identical bodies and same battery types.

I think it's kind of like boxing. Do you train both left and right arms equally or concentrate more on one and hope you won't need to rely on the other?

Excellent analogy.


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Feb 14, 2015 13:11 |  #25

A business should be ran as a busness. Decisions on the choice of equipment should be made on projected return on investment.

The cost of cameras should be based on your earnings from those cameras. Given that, if you earn well over $2,000 most weekends from shooting weddings it should be easy to justify two cameras in the 5d3 price range. If your earnings are less, your choice of equipment should be less.

I am only in this as a hobby so I make the decision on purchases for personal reasons but anyone in business should put aside those and make all decisions based on sound business practices.

If the backup camera is good enough that the main cost of using it would be a couple of hours more in PP, it would be hard to justify spending a $1,000.00 more for a backup camera that is there "just in case."


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Feb 14, 2015 14:03 |  #26

I got an additional 6D to my kit to backup my main body, so when shooting with 2 bodies, its seamless transition. I toyed with the idea of getting a cheaper 5Dc as a backup, but it would be too much of a downgrade. I am considering selling a 6D when the 5D4 comes out and upgrade main body.


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Feb 14, 2015 16:09 |  #27

Nogo wrote in post #17431702 (external link)
A business should be ran as a busness. Decisions on the choice of equipment should be made on projected return on investment.

The cost of cameras should be based on your earnings from those cameras. Given that, if you earn well over $2,000 most weekends from shooting weddings it should be easy to justify two cameras in the 5d3 price range. If your earnings are less, your choice of equipment should be less.

I am only in this as a hobby so I make the decision on purchases for personal reasons but anyone in business should put aside those and make all decisions based on sound business practices.

If the backup camera is good enough that the main cost of using it would be a couple of hours more in PP, it would be hard to justify spending a $1,000.00 more for a backup camera that is there "just in case."

Exactly. And aren't equipment purchases for small businesses tax deductable in the US.


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Feb 14, 2015 16:38 |  #28

Larry Johnson wrote in post #17431866 (external link)
Exactly. And aren't equipment purchases for small businesses tax deductable in the US.

Yes. But you have to use a depreciation schedule. A lease on the other hand can be deducted in the year of the expense.


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Feb 15, 2015 05:25 |  #29

Larry Johnson wrote in post #17431589 (external link)
Here's the quote from Image-resource.com regarding the Canon 7D2 referring to the 7D2 being used as a backup to the 5D3 or 1DX.

"For all your subject tracking needs, be it for football, soccer or birds-in-flight, the 7D Mark II features Canon's AI Servo AF III for the same AF performance as the flagship 1D X. So, not only does the 7D Mark II provide much better autofocus performance over the 7D, it also allows current 5D3 and 1D X owners who are using a 7D Mark II as a secondary or backup camera to have their AF systems "in-sync" so to speak, with the same settings and customizations so it's trivial to switch between the cameras." full review http://www.imaging-resource.com …-ii/canon-7d-mark-iiA.HTM (external link)

Can you give me an example a camera that has just-as-good picture quality, but nowhere-near-as-good ergonomics?

Im not sure the review says the 7d II isn't good enough as a 5d mkIII and should only be used as a secondary camera, it simply states that if you use a 7d II to back up a 5d III, then you can have the same settings for AF between the two. I can see the 5d III being the primary body for weddings and the 7d II for birding, and the two could be a backup body for the other.

As for the examples you asked, the first thing that comes to mind is the 550d vs the 60d - where the two have pretty much the same image quality and processor, but the 60d offers a top LCD and swivel screen. I'm sure there are more - the 5d III and 6d have some ergonomic differences but I think the 6d offers pretty much the same performance for landscape and portrait photography (but I haven't researched the two into detail).


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Feb 15, 2015 07:25 |  #30

DoughnutPhoto wrote in post #17432489 (external link)
Im not sure the review says the 7d II isn't good enough as a 5d mkIII and should only be used as a secondary camera, it simply states that if you use a 7d II to back up a 5d III, then you can have the same settings for AF between the two. I can see the 5d III being the primary body for weddings and the 7d II for birding, and the two could be a backup body for the other.


I'm not sure I'd want to use a backup with a different sensor size. If you were used to using a 24-70 on the 5D3 for weddings, and the 5D failed for some reason, you would need a different lens on the 7D to cover the same job.

It's not impossible, but adding a different format seems to me as if it would make the adaptation of the backup even another step towards a very different workflow.


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Why do Pros Use Inferior Camera as a Back-up
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