if you know wireless Ettl can you help?

Hey guys, I have a 580Ex and have some jobs coming up on the horizon that will require me to set up extremely fast and I want to utilize the wireless ettl feature in the ex series flashes. I have two questions if you could be so kind to answer.

1. I plan to use the 580EX as the master on my 20D so, if I purchase a 430EX will that serve as an adequte slave off camera ? The 430EX will provide more then enough power for what I will be using it for.. I plan to use it as the main light while the 580EX will be used on camera as fill.


2. I will want to use the ratio settings so I can choose 2:1, 8:1, ETC.. Will I be able to use the ratio settings with the 430EX ??


Any info will be apreciated, I just didnt want to go out tomorrow and get a flash I couldnt use for my intentions..

Blessings shutterbugs!

You set the ratios on the master falsh on the hotshoe. The master is always group "A" and the slave will be set to group "B" so you would set your ratios to 1:2 or 1:8.
Make sense?

perfect sense to me... Thanks!! I like the idea of being able to use ratios in very quick situations like sitting in the car with the flashes in my lap as I rush to the church with my assistant driving.. I can be setting the ratios while he gets me to the church before the bride arrives.. I basically want to use this setup so I can walk in have my assistant hold the 430 at a 45degree to the subject while my 580 gives some fill. I know I will have to mess with this to get it right but I like the idea of setting my ratios ahead of time.

I can only comment on the combination of the 550/420 rather than the 580-430 but I don't think that there are much if any differences with the Wireless.

The thing that you need to remember about the wireless is that you can change the ratios effortlessly from the camera position. You don't need to go near the slave at all so there's no point of pre-setting anything. As a matter of fact I want to shoot, check the image and then decide about ratio changes.

I set up the 550 (Master) in the hotshoe - or more usually in the off cord shoe on a bracket - and as pointed out this defaults to the A Group. But this flash is the FILL. The B group flash is the slave, but also the MAIN. I know that you know this but to make the conventional ratios work (3:1) I need to set the ratios on the back of the 550 as 1:3 NOT 3:1! It's funky but that's what it takes.

If you'd like to see some wireless shots email me at dgrandy@grandyphoto.co​m and I'll send you some.

DaveG wrote:
I can only comment on the combination of the 550/420 rather than the 580-430 but I don't think that there are much if any differences with the Wireless.

The thing that you need to remember about the wireless is that you can change the ratios effortlessly from the camera position. You don't need to go near the slave at all so there's no point of pre-setting anything. As a matter of fact I want to shoot, check the image and then decide about ratio changes.

I set up the 550 (Master) in the hotshoe - or more usually in the off cord shoe on a bracket - and as pointed out this defaults to the A Group. But this flash is the FILL. The B group flash is the slave, but also the MAIN. I know that you know this but to make the conventional ratios work (3:1) I need to set the ratios on the back of the 550 as 1:3 NOT 3:1! It's funky but that's what it takes.

If you'd like to see some wireless shots email me at grandy@grandyphoto.com and I'll send you some.

thanks man!! are you saying that you dont have to change anything on the slave? You do all the setting changes on the master exclusively?

Yep. And with the 580 ex, setting ratios is pushing a button and spinning the wheel. About 1 second job...

You need to have the channel and group set on the slave, and then have the SLAVE function enabled, but those things can be done once and be pretty much forgotten.

Do you have flags on the slaves? I use black cardboard velcro'd to the sides of the slaves, and this is to prevent flare. I ALWAYS have the flag on the side of the flash nearest to the camera - the flare protector, and the one on the far side controls flash spill. Usually I don't want spill but sometimes I don't mind and I remove the flag card.

I think me got it thanks.. I havent used flags, I think my idea is going to be experimentation with diffusers and umbrellas. Will I be able to use an umbrella with the slave flash if it's at a 45degree angle from my subject? Hopefully I will be able to position it as such to make this possible? I do have a pocket wizard setup but dont want to use it for the quick setup situations because it takes too much time to setup and manually apply all the settings.

Thanks again for your help!

Here's my concern about using an umbrella: the face of the slaved flash MUST be turned towards the Master. The slaves "receiving" sensor is in the face of the flash and this MUST be line of sight. If the umbrella blocks this line of sight in all but the smallest rooms then the slave doesn't see the instructional pulse and it won't work. I have used a small umbrella and it does work, but I have to make sure that nothing gets between the Master and the slave.

Now I've just worked hard to ensure that the Master (which is the camera position) can see the slave. Well if I don't use a flag on the flash head (obviously the flag shouldn't block the face) then I'm just asking for flare problems.

The other reason that I need to rotate the Slave flashes' face towards the Master is that the slave emits a bright red pulse. This is a BRIGHT BRIGHT red light and will distract the subject if it's pulsing on and off in their face. It's also bright enough so anyone in an audience can see it striking the subject. Even if I didn't want to ensure line-of-sight I'd turn the face of the flash to remove the red pulse distraction.

That pulse (Why is it there god? Why is it there?) looks like it's a pain in the butt, is actually useful to me insofar as it tells me that the flash is awake and functioning. The 420 (and perhaps not the 430) will go to sleep after a period of inactivity. When I see that the pulse has stopped in the slaved flash I know that is is asleep. Pushing the Master flashes' test button will reawaken the slave assuming that it has been asleep for only a few minutes. For longer sleep times this won't work and I have to go up to the slave and turn it off and then on again.

This was exactly why I gave up the Canon wireless TTL and bought some radio slaves. Now I set everything to manual powers and all works brilliantly.

Too often I had found that I compromised my lighting so that the STE2 could talk to the heads....

Canon digital wireless has some downside but so does everything else. Where it's superior to other forms of slaves is the ability to make changes to the lighting without touching the slave.

I often shoot commercial and journalistic assignments where there is someone "speaking at a podium". The light in the room is usually terrible and there's not much of it, so I need to light the subject. I place a 420 on a light stand with flags on at least the camera side of the flash and raise the stand as high as I can get it. If I can the slave is directly in front of the subject and about five to ten meters away. The face of the flash is turned towards me.

Now from the camera position I can adjust the lighting ratios. I can change just about everything - including ISO - and the flash exposure system takes care of it all. I'm not the biggest fan of E-TTL or E-TTL II but it works wonderfully well within the wireless system.

The greatest advantage of Canon Wireless is that I don't have to approach the slaved flashes in the middle of the speach to adjust their output and I would have to if I was using it on Manual. I can shut off the Master's light output and illuminate the subject with only the slave. I can change the slave's output from 2.8 to f8 if I need more depth of field and I can go back seemlessly.

I MIGHT be able to approach the slave flash once during a speech but it would be far to distracting if I was donkeying with it throughout and I know that I'd have a very angry client if i did. As long as I work within the capabilities of the Canon Wireless system it works really well. By the way the first change I'd make to your setup would be to NOT use the ST-E2. It doesn't have nearly the range as a Master as the 550 and it's not (duh) a flash, so I'd have to figure out some way to get a fill light going.