AI-servo AF: 7D vs. 6D?

I just bought a used 7D. In playing with the AI-Servo AF system, I have noticed that 'locked-on' settings make a huge difference for stuff like tracking one animal in a herd. The delay incorporated in locked-on vs closest object (sorry, not up to speed on the terms), makes a huge difference. All of this prompted me to use the AF adjustments available on my 6D. Having never messed with them before (I think the 60D is a better action body), I was amazed to find the adjustments make about the same difference on my 6D as on the 7D.

The question is: Is my 6D as good in AI-Servo (restricting myself to center-point only) as the 7D I just spent $475 on?

So far, I still have all AF modes available and am learning to use the joystick to control points/zones. That is quite nice compared to the press-and-spin of the 60D/6D.

I have both a 6D & 7D, and using center point only, I've found the 6D to be every bit as good as the 7D.

My understanding, for the 60D for example, is that in AIServo it will hand-over the AF from the chosen point to a neighboring one, if the subject gets out of the AFing area of the chosen point.

I can see this happening in my 5D3 (the handover) and it is actually very fast and impressive. The 60D doesn't show it, but I have very rarely missed an action shot with it.

The problem with the 6D is that the outer points are not as competent as the center point, so, the story goes, when the AF is handed to an outer point. The 7D can do that with more competent outer points.

I have never shot a 6D, so I can't vouch for the story... but the 7D as an action camera (never shot that one either) reigned supreme for years.

Sorry, I am not up to the terminology either...

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17482149
I just bought a used 7D. In playing with the AI-Servo AF system, I have noticed that 'locked-on' settings make a huge difference for stuff like tracking one animal in a herd. The delay incorporated in locked-on vs closest object (sorry, not up to speed on the terms), makes a huge difference. All of this prompted me to use the AF adjustments available on my 6D. Having never messed with them before (I think the 60D is a better action body), I was amazed to find the adjustments make about the same difference on my 6D as on the 7D.

The question is: Is my 6D as good in AI-Servo (restricting myself to center-point only) as the 7D I just spent $475 on?

So far, I still have all AF modes available and am learning to use the joystick to control points/zones. That is quite nice compared to the press-and-spin of the 60D/6D.

I've not used the 6D but do shoot with the 7D. IMHO, the answer to your question is no. I think the AF system in the 7D is quite a bit more sophisticated for tracking subjects than that in the 6D. That's not to say you couldn't get a good result with the 6D in certain scenarios. Here are just a couple things that come to mind:

7D vs 6D AF
* 19 vs 11 AF points
* All AF points cross-type vs only center point cross-type
* Can start AF tracking with any AF point vs can start tracking only with the center AF point
* AF area selection options vs none

Thanks all. I do agree that limiting the 7D to center point only (only place the 6D can compete) would be quite silly. I still have to figure out how all of this works on the 7D.

Little Rant here, but on topic. The 6D outer points are still working focus points. Too many people, some included here have never shot with or used the 6D, but continue to share horror stories about the 6D outer focus points like it is fact. In low light, I would agree they are not fantastic, but I would say in low light the center point is better than any other Canon body on the market. And I have shot with 5D2/3 and even borrowed a 1Dx just to test. And that center point is almost a cat and can see in the dark. But the outer points in regular light, where most of the shots being talked about here, are very capable of hitting and holding focus.
Rant off/
I just get a little worked up by people who have not even used the body continuing to portray things that simply are not true. Yes the 7D and 60D are probably better at sports or fast action by their more advanced focus systems, but the 6D is able to work as well.

gocolts wrote in post #17482197
I have both a 6D & 7D, and using center point only, I've found the 6D to be every bit as good as the 7D.

Same here.

sirquack wrote in post #17482260
Little Rant here, but on topic. The 6D outer points are still working focus points. Too many people, some included here have never shot with or used the 6D, but continue to share horror stories about the 6D outer focus points like it is fact. In low light, I would agree they are not fantastic, but I would say in low light the center point is better than any other Canon body on the market. And I have shot with 5D2/3 and even borrowed a 1Dx just to test. And that center point is almost a cat and can see in the dark. But the outer points in regular light, where most of the shots being talked about here, are very capable of hitting and holding focus.
Rant off/
I just get a little worked up by people who have not even used the body continuing to portray things that simply are not true. Yes the 7D and 60D are probably better at sports or fast action by their more advanced focus systems, but the 6D is able to work as well.

Yes Sir, couldn't agree with you more. I'm also tired of the same "I've never even held one, but". The world does not revolve around the 5D3. Believe it or not, Canon does make other cameras that are quite capable of producing outstanding photos. I've had this rant before. I know that many of these recommendations are personal dream cameras, but please, let someone answer an OPs questions with facts, not fantasy. Sorry for the rant, put this has been a soar spot with me since I joined the forum. I know this goes on in other forums, but I believe people on this forum deserve better.

sirquack wrote in post #17482260
Little Rant here, but on topic. The 6D outer points are still working focus points. Too many people, some included here have never shot with or used the 6D, but continue to share horror stories about the 6D outer focus points like it is fact. In low light, I would agree they are not fantastic, but I would say in low light the center point is better than any other Canon body on the market. And I have shot with 5D2/3 and even borrowed a 1Dx just to test. And that center point is almost a cat and can see in the dark. But the outer points in regular light, where most of the shots being talked about here, are very capable of hitting and holding focus.
Rant off/
I just get a little worked up by people who have not even used the body continuing to portray things that simply are not true. Yes the 7D and 60D are probably better at sports or fast action by their more advanced focus systems, but the 6D is able to work as well.

eddieb1 wrote in post #17482394
Yes Sir, couldn't agree with you more. I'm also tired of the same "I've never even held one, but". The world does not revolve around the 5D3. Believe it or not, Canon does make other cameras that are quite capable of producing outstanding photos. I've had this rant before. I know that many of these recommendations are personal dream cameras, but please, let someone answer an OPs questions with facts, not fantasy. Sorry for the rant, put this has been a soar spot with me since I joined the forum. I know this goes on in other forums, but I believe people on this forum deserve better.

Maybe I'm seeing it differently, but it doesn't appear that anyone in the thread is disparaging the 6D. I certainly wasn't and consider the 6D to be a very capable camera. My comparison was based on the cameras' AF specifications and using the 7D. I've not used the 7D Mark II (yet), but I'm confident in saying that it probably outperforms the 7D. The 7D Mark II uses the same AF algorithm as the 5D Mark III, and yes, I have used the 5D Mark III. I don't think the 6D was designed as an action camera per se, but I'll say again that it probably provides a good result in certain scenarios.

I routinely read an original thread starter being advised not to buy XYZ for this and that reason... .while the person giving the advice has never used the product they are advising said person not to buy. This happens with lenses as well as camera bodies. It would be nice if people would relate the reasons why they own what they do and not run down another product they have never used or even held in their hands, as has been mentioned.

There are exceptions, of course. I will speak up when someone is planning on buying a 75-300 at list price. But I won't tell someone to avoid a 6D because its AF system isn't a 5D3 or a 7D2. For some genres of photography, the fastest AF isn't necessary to get stellar results. I mean... I don't use AI Servo and high speed continuous shooting when I'm working on a landscape scene.

I can never comment on the differences in IQ between a Canon full frame camera and my 7D2 either. I have seen our son do some amazing things with his 5Dc but I've never taken and post processed a photograph from a full frame camera. It does sort of bug me when people tell me, directly or even indirectly, that all my photographs are garbage because I'm not shooting with a full frame camera.

End of rant.

davinci953 wrote in post #17482447
Maybe I'm seeing it differently, but it doesn't appear that anyone in the thread is disparaging the 6D. I certainly wasn't and consider the 6D to be a very capable camera. My comparison was based on the cameras' AF specifications and using the 7D. I've not used the 7D Mark II (yet), but I'm confident in saying that it probably outperforms the 7D. The 7D Mark II uses the same AF algorithm as the 5D Mark III, and yes, I have used the 5D Mark III. I don't think the 6D was designed as an action camera per se, but I'll say again that it probably provides a good result in certain scenarios.

I never took it as disparaging the 6D. I have one and I think it's an outstanding piece of equipment. I'm just very tired of a member asking an opinion on one camera with a certain price point, and some know-it-all telling him that his choice isn't any good, and he should double, or in some cases triple their budget and buy something else. It would be nice to have an unlimited budget for a hobby, but I'm sure for most of us, there is reality. Life happens and most can't afford someone else's dreams. Just asking for a reality check, and answer an OPs question instead of wasting peoples time with dreams. Sorry for the rant. I'll stop now. Sorry to the OP for hijacking your thread.

eddieb1 wrote in post #17482490
I never took it as disparaging the 6D. I have one and I think it's an outstanding piece of equipment. I'm just very tired of a member asking an opinion on one camera with a certain price point, and some know-it-all telling him that his choice isn't any good, and he should double, or in some cases triple their budget and buy something else. It would be nice to have an unlimited budget for a hobby, but I'm sure for most of us, there is reality. Life happens and most can't afford someone else's dreams. Just asking for a reality check, and answer an OPs question instead of wasting peoples time with dreams. Sorry for the rant. I'll stop now. Sorry to the OP for hijacking your thread.

That seems like a different issue. The OP was asking about AI Servo in the 7D and 6D. But yes, I understand what you're saying.

I was the first to answer the OP's question, as best as I could with the experience I have in hand with the 60D and the 5D3. I didn't hide the fact that I haven't used the 6D, or that the opinion (the 'story') is hearsay.

I gave my opinion, as best and as objectively as possible.

It is followed by a number of 6D owners 'ranting', calling names ('know-it all'...). This ganging up reminds me of high school bullying. What's the problem? I can't say my opinion? I thought this was a forum. Is there written somewhere that you have to own the 6D to participate in a thread discussing the 6D?

Fact: All outer points on the 6D are non-cross (therefore sensitive on one direction)

Fact: Cross points can detect better/faster. The 5D3 (horrors) has some non-cross points. It is recommended by some people to exclude them from tracking to facilitate faster handover among cross type points. I experimented with it and for most tracking cases I tried didn't make any difference that I can tell. I disabled them nevertheless. They do seem to me to be impaired in lower light.

Fact: Canon introduced the 6D camera as a landscapers' tool. Not a AIServo monster, unless you are photographing earthquakesw...The 7D was still and for some time after the AIServo action machine to go to (the 5DIII does not have as high FPS for action as the 7D).

What do you want to say to the OP? That the 6D is as good an action camera as the 7D? Really?

Yes you can shoot action with a 6D. Yes I can shoot action with my SX700 P&S. The number of keepers and the results may vary I don't think you'll see many pros shooting sports with a SX 700... (The SX700 by the way has a tracking system that appears more sophisticated than the 5D3. It looks at the object you point it to, decides on the size and pattern and follows it all over the sensor. It is not as responsive as the AF handover in the 5D3 but I am sure that Canon will evolve it a la 70D hybrid sensor until it is responsive enough to replace phase detect).

Gerry,

For the record, I wasn't referring to you. Of course, we know each other and that makes a difference as well.

I shouldn't do it but I will guess anyway. I suspect the objections are based on a long history of people commenting on equipment they don't own. Since you own a 60D, I'm sure you've seen people post that it won't work for this or that.... like your comments on high ISOs on the 60D in response to others posting that you can't shoot the 60D over 1600 ISO, etc.

I really like my 7D2/100-400ii combo but I've recently seen people advise others not to buy a 100-400ii because it won't work for birding and other wildlife. I know that's where my own rant came from.... not from your post.

I wasn't "name calling". I was stating a fact that some people have an opinion no matter what you throw at them. Having an opinion without actually handling the camera is of no use. Rent one for a day, shoot with it, give an opinion. That's all. Anyone can open and get an opinion, but at least, the people have handled the equipment, and have formed an opinion. Never using a piece of hardware, and giving an opinion doesn't help the OP, or anyone reading the "opinion". For me, to give a comparison between a 1Dx and a 6D and never owning them gives no one any useful info. I hope you understand where I'm coming from. I hope you didn't take any of this as a personal attack. It was in no way meant to be.