Shooting a wedding - Not just your equipment.

texkam wrote in post #17526122
More tools enable you to do more things, or do things easier, or better. Experience isn't even that much of a factor. Knowledge and the talent to creatively use it trumps all.

experience will trump out creativity and talent in a wedding IMO. Not really much creative about it, you can probably make a list of key shots, then a bunch of run of the mill group shots. Experience trumps all at that point. Where to be, how to avoid uncle bob, best angles, optimal gear for venue, ect.

Aswald wrote in post #17526133
Somehow, when it comes to wedding, this statement may not be all that true.

I've shot a few weddings and I can vouch that knowing and actually doing it, are two very different things.

starlights wrote in post #17526192
I respectfully disagree with your statement. Experience and your comfort level at using those tools plays a vital role in being able to channelize all your energies into creativity and vision. The process should be like driving a car on the road - the process should become so natural that the tool becomes the extension of the person controlling it - one shouldn't need to think about pressing the clutch or shifting gears, but rather driving well on the road - else, use an automatic (Like P Mode or AV/TV mode on the camera) and focus on getting good results.

If one is left thinking about how to use the equipment, then the time and the part of the brain which could have been used for creativity and vision is lost. If you look at any of the top photographers - no matter how much equipment they use, they are so comfortable using it, that it becomes a part of them.

The other thing that helps in the above process is: KISS - Keep it simple sweetie

Charlie wrote in post #17526298
experience will trump out creativity and talent in a wedding IMO. Not really much creative about it, you can probably make a list of key shots, then a bunch of run of the mill group shots. Experience trumps all at that point. Where to be, how to avoid uncle bob, best angles, optimal gear for venue, ect.

Completely agree with others. When it comes to weddings.

Experience: add +4 to your avatar after each event.
Creativity/talent: add +4 to your avatar one time.
Charisma/charm: add +3 to your client signing ability for every interaction.
Luck: roll dice for every event and add to experience score.

Why are you placing experience and creativity at odds? Experience will trump creativity? Experience, coupled WITH creativity, will trump just about anything. I shot a wedding last weekend with two 6D's, one with a 35 1.4 and the other with a 135. I had a Fuji and a Nikon D7000 as well, but never pulled them out of the bag. 90 percent of my photos were with the 35mm. Could I have photographed the entire wedding with it? Absolutely could have. Would I have? No. There's a difference between being able to do something and actually wanting to do that thing.

I'm not saying experience is not important. Yes, it plays a vital role, but once you achieve a sound comfort level, talent, creativity, and vision trumps. Some shooters are experienced and technically sound, but just don't have the "gift". That creative vision is what separates the good from the great. It's the difference between "run of the mill" and amazing.

I'll take a talented, highly creative shooter who has a high degree of knowlege in both the art and the craft of photography, that although has only shot a dozen weddings, still knows what they are doing, but is a real artist, over a 200 wedding veteran that is technically proficient, but shoots boring cliché cookbook tripe.

texkam wrote in post #17527473
I'm not saying experience is not important. Yes, it plays a vital role, but once you achieve a sound comfort level, talent, creativity, and vision trumps. Some shooters are experienced and technically sound, but just don't have the "gift". That creative vision is what separates the good from the great. It's the difference between "run of the mill" and amazing.

I'll take a talented, highly creative shooter who has a high degree of knowlege in both the art and the craft of photography, that although has only shot a dozen weddings, still knows what they are doing, but is a real artist, over a 200 wedding veteran that is technically proficient, but shoots boring cliché cookbook tripe.

That would definitely be ideal....

Hopefully, we'll still be able to afford this ideal photographer you've just described.

A business is a holistic beast.

Quality of product, is determined by gear.
Content of product, is a combination of creativity & experience.
Customer service, your personality and willingness to please.
Marketing, knowledge, money, time, education.

Every element has a different skill set, no one has talent in every element of a business, it has to be learned, mistakes have to be made etc.

Those that work hard and learn fast do the best.

One thing consistency through a wide range of lighting conditions and knowledge base has to start somewhere
every wedding Photographer had to start on wedding one.
One of my many mentors over 30 yrs used to shoot weddings with MF kit B+W just after the 2nd world war 12 shots
that was it ! money was scarce people could only afford bare minimum.
My own Marriage 38 years ago MF gear again but colour with one black and white our album had 35 shots in it.
Today we are spoilt for choice of tools even a humble to some rebel xyz model is better specified than the old camera's.
I have read that some wedding shooters capture 2000 images, if you can not get 300 well composed and sharp shots
take up lawn bowls! self analysis are you consistently getting 80% or higher usable shots when you can et to 90%+
That is experience you earn this not talk it.
My Take
Bazz 8

texkam wrote in post #17527473
I'm not saying experience is not important. Yes, it plays a vital role, but once you achieve a sound comfort level, talent, creativity, and vision trumps. Some shooters are experienced and technically sound, but just don't have the "gift". That creative vision is what separates the good from the great. It's the difference between "run of the mill" and amazing.

Yeah, but experience is what can separate getting the shot or blowing it all together. Experience gains you anticipation, ability to correct problems that come out of the blue, how to deal with difficult subjects/people and still get the shot, how to deal with different lighting scenarios with the gear you have OR don't have with you, how to deal with grandparents or kids who either physically can't or won't cooperate to get the shot, etc etc. There are a range of things that can come up during a wedding and you can't have a "do over". Artistic talent and vision don't help in a wedding if you have to be able to deal with whatever pops up but have never done it before.
What if you're incredibly talented artistically but shoot natural light and the venue isn't well lit, or the reception is dark except for the disco ball and you don't have much experience shooting with flash??

texkam wrote in post #17527473
I'll take a talented, highly creative shooter who has a high degree of knowlege in both the art and the craft of photography, that although has only shot a dozen weddings, still knows what they are doing, but is a real artist, over a 200 wedding veteran that is technically proficient, but shoots boring cliché cookbook tripe.

A dozen weddings is not a lack of experience. IMO, a dozen is a LOT of experience when it comes to weddings because you learn exponentially every time. I would go so far as to say a talented artistic photographer would start really rocking it out after only three weddings under their belt. You can get a good gauge for what you can expect by looking through a dozen of their weddings. Would you want a photographer with zero weddings under their belt over one with 100 is a more applicable question in my mind.
ps: a wedding veteran with 200 weddings under their belt is probably doing something right

It is sounding more like your "artistic" photographer in this scenario isn't really all that inexperienced, which sort of makes the point questionable.

We are looking at this from a photographers point of view, we have studied the work around us and seen thousands of wedding photos.

From the Bride & Groom's perspective, price is very often the consideration, they might ask friends & family how much they paid to get an idea of what is to be expected and adjust from there.

Communication is also the big consideration, do you know that most people book the first photographer that replies? They pick out three or four photographers email them all on the same evening and wait for the replies.

I have booked a few fancier weddings than my price range would suggest for that very reason.

The first ten weddings I booked were from the pictures of one free wedding, those pictures were awful compared to the pictures those clients received, and this season has already proved even better.

So yes experience, is a huge factor, experience also feeds creativity, and confidence in abilities results in better photos.

But I am pretty sure that most people invest in better gear as they get better too, while that doesn't give you creative vision, it might enable you to get the shot you saw but couldn't get, for example you might of been in an extremely dark church and with your rebel camera and consumer telephoto been at f5.6 at 200mm iso 12800 1/15 of a second, and flash had been banned, a f2.8 lens and a camera sensor capable of a usable 12800 would of been the better choice of equipment. A 135mm f2 might of sacrificed some focal length for shutter speed if you needed it.

Gear solves technical issues as well, normally it's after you have run into a problem that you can justify the new piece of kit.

If you are smart you think ahead, check out the venues, rent potential problem solvers, if they were useful buy the problem solvers, you can discover there creative applications later. Or you can tell your clients that if you can't use flash indoors that portion of the day won't be able to be photographed, and see how many still book you.

People ask questions about gear because they don't want to run into problems in the first place because it would be at the expense of a client.

Just shoot the wedding, gain some experience, make money, upgrade. No need to overanalyze experience this or creativity this. We're not trading cards or live action role play characters. Who cares. Stop comparing yourself with other photographers and just enjoy shooting the wedding.

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #17520907
Erm... yes you can. I've done it perfectly well entirely on a 50mm before.

Here you go... ALL ON A 50mm!

Pot... kettle... oh the irony

Apolgies, now I've read my original post back i'm kind of contradicting myself! Yes you can shoot a wedding with one lens, if the knowledge and experience is there.

I've shot quality weddings with just my 24-70 2.8 L only. But it depends on the situation. I always have 2 bodies and up to 6 lens in my bag. And my second shooter also has choices with their gear. My point is to be prepared and bring lots of choices with you.

The glass that I use most at weddings:

24-105 F4 L (outdoor day shoots typically)
24-70 2.8 L II
70-200 2.8 II
50 1.2 L

Experience shooting weddings gives you an idea of what you need to accomplish your artistic vision. I am sure that many wedding photographers here know that when they are confronted with various lighting situations and ideas for poses in different environments they know what gear they need to accomplish that idea. Good gear helps to open up possibilities that otherwise would be very difficult with equipment of less quality. Both gear and experience go hand in hand because sometimes you reach a limit where your equipment just ain't allowing you to do want you want.

All of the back and forth ignores the fact you cant responsibly shoot a wedding with a single camera and lens. Backup gear is essential.

gonzogolf wrote in post #17613841
All of the back and forth ignores the fact you cant responsibly shoot a wedding with a single camera and lens. Backup gear is essential.

This is true.