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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk 
Thread started 17 Apr 2015 (Friday) 09:03
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How do you deal with requests for more photos?

 
PMGphotog
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Apr 17, 2015 09:03 |  #1

I'm not an event photographer and mainly do live bands and promo shoots. Recently a friend asked me to help out at an event for his friend as the photographer they had booked pulled out.

I'm sure I've read similar situations so sorry if this sounds familiar.

So my brief was just take pictures of people interacting, do some posed shots and take pictures of the guests having fun ( it was a fundraiser for a charity, me fee was very low as this was a favour for a friend.)

So I took 600 odd shots and edited it down to 60 deliverables which covered the brief. The client then emailed me asking if there were any other pictures and I told her that there might be a few but I was pretty sure that all the usable shots were in my final edit. All good until today where she has asked for the 600 shots I took :-)

I'm thinking I should maybe explain that in lots of the candid shots focus was off, people looked odd ( eyes closed or strange expressions etc ) and people walked into shots etc. As well as few where my flash didn't fire etc etc.

She has offered to pay extra, but at the rate the original fee was this wouldn't be much at all.


I've read where wedding photogs get demands for all the shots but has this ever happened with event photogs and if so how do you handle this kind of request?

Further info. I created a flickr gallery and supplied digital copies direct to the client both as full sized and also re sized for web versions too. Also I plan on maybe using Zenfolio or something similar so guests can get prints made if they wish.


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jcolman
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Apr 17, 2015 09:13 |  #2

To be honest, shooting 600 shots and only delivering 60 is a bit lame. I can understand why the client might ask for more. But it's your call.


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PMGphotog
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Apr 17, 2015 09:20 |  #3

I suppose you'd have to have been there. There was no proper organisation, I was solo with 2 rooms and a portrait area to cover and the actual event space was really tight and badly lit.

I had stressed to the client that I shoot live bands and this was not my forte. I think at the end of the night I told her I might have 30-50 shots based on how I felt the night went. She was happy with this and getting 60 should have been the icing on the cake.

I guess if she wants me to convert 540 raw files to jpegs and re size them and then host them on drop box etc she can have them, but suspect pictures of guests looking a bit odd might not go down too well :-)

EDIT: I should mention that I was shooting from 7pm to 11pm with a 45 min break when people were eating and I only shot portraits in the other room so time was a factor too.


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Qlayer2
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Apr 17, 2015 09:50 as a reply to  @ PMGphotog's post |  #4

The proper response when someone asks you for all the photos you took instead of all the photos you delivered, is simply to say they are gone. You delete all images that don't meet your standards.

This of course works best if it is the truth. Since this is a friend of a friend, and I have no idea what your contract states you provide, it's up to you.

The dangerous part of handing off work you wouldn't want others to see is that they are going to see it, and share it, and attribute it to you. Look at this awful picture of me that photographer took! There is food hanging out of my mouth- why would they take that picture?

Average deliverable shots per hour is always based on the crowd and what else is going on. 15 shots per hour is low, but since none of us were there, we have no idea if it was reasonable or not. Someone who shoots these types of things for a living is getting 50% keepers or better, but that isn't you, so don't sweat what you didn't get- use it as a learning experience and decide if you want to do this sort of thing in the future.




  
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seres
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Apr 17, 2015 09:59 |  #5

Qlayer2 wrote in post #17521105 (external link)
The proper response when someone asks you for all the photos you took instead of all the photos you delivered, is simply to say they are gone. You delete all images that don't meet your standards.

This of course works best if it is the truth. Since this is a friend of a friend, and I have no idea what your contract states you provide, it's up to you.

The dangerous part of handing off work you wouldn't want others to see is that they are going to see it, and share it, and attribute it to you. Look at this awful picture of me that photographer took! There is food hanging out of my mouth- why would they take that picture?

Average deliverable shots per hour is always based on the crowd and what else is going on. 15 shots per hour is low, but since none of us were there, we have no idea if it was reasonable or not. Someone who shoots these types of things for a living is getting 50% keepers or better, but that isn't you, so don't sweat what you didn't get- use it as a learning experience and decide if you want to do this sort of thing in the future.

I agree. Once the photos are out of your possession, they are going to be seen by all. I would delete them, and say they are gone.


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mikeinctown
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Apr 17, 2015 14:59 |  #6

Just tell her sorry but they were not up to your standards and deleted most of them. (make sure you actually do anyway, as they just waste space)

My girlfriend's daughter is on a cheer team and was in a competition this past sunday. They have 2.5 minutes. I took 85 photos. Out of 85 photos, I found 2 to be good enough that I edited them and printed several large prints for her. The rest all had odd facial expressions, looking away, turning around, unflattering views, etc. I guess this should be expected though with a group of 8 year olds. I don't care if my own GF asks me for the rest, she isn't getting them. (though i did tell here I might be able to get one or two more suitable for print)




  
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banquetbear
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Apr 17, 2015 15:23 |  #7

PMGphotog wrote in post #17521062 (external link)
EDIT: I should mention that I was shooting from 7pm to 11pm with a 45 min break when people were eating and I only shot portraits in the other room so time was a factor too.

...a 4 hour event photoshoot and you only delivered 60 photos? That's 15 photos an hour. I'm with jcolman, thats pretty lame. I hope you don't mind but I popped over to your flickr: you only took four photos at the photo booth? And two of them were of the same group of people? There were only two speakers, and you only delivered one photo of each? The ladies with the pink hair, did they perform a show or did they just turn up with pink hair? In four hours only two groups of people wanted their photo taken together? If you only shot portraits in the other room: where are all the portraits? What did they do till eleven at night, was there any dancing?

I just looked at a comparable event I did a couple of months ago, a four hour conference dinner with about the same amount of guests. I delivered 447 images culled from about 1500 and delivered to my client, fully edited within 24 hours. I aim to shoot between 80 and 100 deliverable images per hour, which means that I'm normally shooting double that in an hour (most of those images are probably good enough to deliver).

Looking at your venue I don't think that delivering between 2-300 images would be an unreasonable expectation of the client. One thing you need to remember when shooting events like this is that if you have the camera pointed at you and you see the flash fire, you expect that a photo has been taken of you. So when you log into the gallery and can't find that photo, and when the organiser starts getting enquiries from people saying "he took my photo, but I can't find it" then the client will start to get a bit antsy. They start talking: "I'm sure he got a photo of me with the sponsor in the corner, where is that photo?" "He took twenty photos of me making a speech, but where are the photos?"

This really isn't comparable to a wedding. Corporate events are really a different kind of thing. At a wedding the photos are memories of a day to be remembered forever. When you shoot a corporate event you are serving several different masters. You've got the organiser, who needs photos to show that they can effectively organise. You've got the sponsors, who who spend a lot of money and want a little bit of proof that they were actually at the event. You've got the attendees, who need to prove to their bosses they actually were at this charity event and not out on the town drinking it up. So when you are working to complete the clients brief, you need to keep the end usage of the images in mind. Apart from a photo of a menu you really didn't get any photos for the sponsors. There looks like there was an auction: but no photos of the excitement of the bidding, only one photo of someones butt being lifted into the air that could be an excited auction winner, no photos of the official exchange of auction items and only one photo of an auction winner (I'm assuming they were the winner: she may have simply been holding up the gloves). With three items being auctioned you could have grabbed twenty shots alone of all of that and that would equal the 60 shots you actually delivered. There are no wide shots of the room to give a sense of occasion. There is no story being told here. There were no food detail shots. No exterior venue shots. Now none of that is in the brief. But you had four hours to kill for goodness sakes. And food doesn't "look odd" and will give you enough time to get in focus and will not walk out of shot.

So no, I wouldn't delete the other 540 images. I would take a fresh look at the images to see what you can salvage. Crop if you need to. I would never tell my client that candid shots focus was off, people looked odd, and people walked into shots because this is just normal stuff that happens at every event and as event photographers we are expected to deal with. Every single event venue I've shot in has been really tight and badly lit. People can look odd for a fraction of a second, so wait for the moment they don't look odd and then snap the shutter. Or snap a few extra shots and use the best of the lot. I wouldn't bother with the Zenfolio gallery. You typically don't make sales on this type of event and the type of photo you took aren't typically the type that sell.

I get that this isn't your forte: but your client really doesn't care. Should they have done their due diligence on you before hiring you? Sure. Could you have done better? With all due respect, yeah you could have. At this point there really isn't anything you can do but work to fix the problem as best you can, deliver any other additional images that you are able to, then move on.


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maverick75
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Apr 17, 2015 15:52 |  #8

You should have never told them you took 600. Next time lie and just say you took 100.

The masses want quantity over quality unfortunately.

Don't be afraid to charge a higher fee, they offered to pay.


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mclaren777
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Apr 17, 2015 17:52 |  #9

I photograph events like this regularly so I wanted to give some input...

  • Congratulations on getting good shots with your limited gear
  • For an event like this, 100-150 images should have been your target
  • Do whatever it takes to make your client happy – that's the goal

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    A technical comparison of sensor technology: Exposure Latitude (external link)

      
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    memoriesoftomorrow
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    Apr 17, 2015 18:03 |  #10

    A 10% keeper rate is really pretty poor


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    BrickR
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    Apr 17, 2015 22:29 |  #11

    I have found that I tend to deliver about 100 images per hour. That's excessive, but I never get a request for more photos ;)
    I used to deliver 30 per hour which is basically 1 image every 2 mins and that is a good number I think to capture an event. Of course, the better I got the number of keepers got higher :)


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    panicatnabisco
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    Apr 19, 2015 02:28 |  #12

    Live bands are not you forte but your flicker is mostly live bands? The client probably looked you up and saw your work, expecting the same product delivered. Even if the pay is not great, 60 photos for 3 hours and 15 mins of work is not professional. You could have turned it down, but you've committed to it and took the payment, so you need to deliver. If a client has to pay to get MORE photos from you, it's paints your business in a negative light.


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    elrey2375
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    Apr 19, 2015 03:44 |  #13

    Goddamn, this poor guy is getting raked over the coals. A 10 percent keeper rate is 'lame'? Who the hell made up that rule? In events like this, you can't help blinkers, people making weird faces, people walking through a shot, etc. How many shots of the same damn thing does someone need? I know that weddings aren't exactly the same thing, but quality is where it's at. Doesn't matter if you got 10 shots if none of them are THE shot. I'll take the one that is. I've never given a wedding client more than 325 photos or thereabouts. In that particular wedding, I think I took 750 or so. I don't take 20 shots of the wedding party, for example. I take shots till I get two that have everyone's eyes opened, etc. I'm not going to pad the photo count by giving them photos they really don't need. I've just been at these weddings where it sounds like the photographer never stops shooting and is running around like a hectic mess. I don't promise a certain number of photos. I very rarely get asked by a client how many photos they will receive. In 5 years, I've had ONE client ask for more photos. And that wasn't because they didn't think they received enough. They wanted the RAW files because they wanted to mess around editing them. I quickly shut that down.


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    welshwizard1971
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    Apr 19, 2015 04:20 |  #14

    I agree, we weren't there, how can we possibly judge if he did a good job? For all we know that was an outstanding keeper rate?

    My Brother in law got married, paid an eye watering amount of money, a staggering amount, for a 'top end' photographer, the bloke turned up with amateur kit ( I didn't once see the camera in anything other than auto), no flash, and a gammy leg so he couldn't move around much or keep up with what was going on, took thousands of photo's, and they were all rubbish, and then the bloke had the brass neck to charge him again to even look the the proofs, charged him an arm and a leg to buy 'sample books' as that was the only format he was prepared to 'release' them in, and they were so small you couldn't see anything anyway, then charged a fortune for the actual books, in total I think he 'allowed' my brother in law to look at 40 images, after an all day event, one of which was photoshopped with a night sky with fireworks, on a picture taken on a lawn at mid day! I wanted to go over there and rip his head off but the wife stopped me! I'm banned from talking about it with my brother in law as it's such a sore subject, , he was outrageously ripped off, the bloke was a complete chancer who didn't have the first clue what he was doing. And Every time I go to his house, I see an out of focus blurred photo of them kissing on their wedding day to remind me, that poor sod has to see it every day.

    In UK terms he paid £4000 in total, so what's that, $6000, for 40 terrible pics? Sound pretty rubbish to the US chaps??

    Anyway, slight diversion, leave him alone :)


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    jcolman
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    Apr 19, 2015 08:44 |  #15

    In response to the above, if someone shoots 600 pics and delivers 60, something is amiss. Either the photographer is a 'spray and pray" type of shooter or he is someone who doesn't wait for moments or doesn't know his equipment well enough to have a decent number of "keepers". I'm sorry but if I hired a second shooter who only produced 60 good images out of 600, I would be sorely disappointed.

    Sorry if this seems harsh but I'm not one to sugar coat my thoughts.


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