Blurred Images Airshow

I didn't realize that the Tamron lens would have this issue. I won't be using it again or even thinking about buying it.

In my experience, panning relies both on practice and physiology, particularly at high magnification. Strength is a factor because muscle fatigue from holding a camera with heavy lens will cause tremors and vibration. Avoiding sugary and caffeinated beverages to avoid jitters. A stable body platform and camera grip -- not gripping the camera tightly but supporting the camera and lens solidly with elbows tucked-in to the body -- to minimize unwanted movement. Smooth motion from the waist and a gentle and smooth press of the shutter button.

You don't need IS to capture these kinds of photos, but it makes it much easier. However, if your IS doesn't support panning mode you might be better off disabling it rather than allowing it to possibly fight your panning motion.

Some other suggestions based on some assumptions -- possibly wrong -- from the example photo you posted.

The image you posted has artifacts that lead me to believe this was underexposed and heavily cropped. If you shot at 600mm and still had to crop significantly you are shooting from too far away. Cropping will increase the appearance of any motion blur, and at distances far enough to need to crop while shooting a 600mm lens you've got serious potential for distortion due to humidity, dust, pollution and even atmospheric heat gradients. My estimate from your photo's EXIF and the scene lighting and brightness is you pushed 1.5-2 stops in post, maybe more. Underexposing and pushing in post is going to affect noise, detail and contrast. You would be better off -- particularly with a 1DX -- bumping the ISO so the plane is properly exposed then recovering the highlights in post.

So don't blame the lens, or at least don't blame it entirely. Technique is responsible for a huge amount of the result. Remember that folks successfully shot aircraft-in-flight for decades before IS was developed and managed to get great photos. IS has increased the keeper rate but didn't create this category of photography.

seaninsa wrote in post #17596170
I didn't realize that the Tamron lens would have this issue. I won't be using it again or even thinking about buying it.

I really think you should give the new 100-400 a try. I rented it from Borrowlenses.com. I think it was $105 for 3 days. I've rented from them 3 times now and have gotten excellent service. But popular lenses usually need to be reserved in advance.

If you use it with the 7DII it will give you a fov equivalent to a 640mm lens on a FF body (lens set to 400mm). That's 240mm more "reach" than you'd get from your 1Dx. And 20mp to crop from, if needed. Heck, you might not even need a 600mm lens.

From the photos I've seen around the net, the 7DII/100-400 II looks like the hot combo for air show shooting.

Yeah I will stick with the 100-400.

bumpintheroad wrote in post #17596200
In my experience, panning relies both on practice and physiology, particularly at high magnification. Strength is a factor because muscle fatigue from holding a camera with heavy lens will cause tremors and vibration. Avoiding sugary and caffeinated beverages to avoid jitters. A stable body platform and camera grip -- not gripping the camera tightly but supporting the camera and lens solidly with elbows tucked-in to the body -- to minimize unwanted movement. Smooth motion from the waist and a gentle and smooth press of the shutter button.

You don't need IS to capture these kinds of photos, but it makes it much easier. However, if your IS doesn't support panning mode you might be better off disabling it rather than allowing it to possibly fight your panning motion.

Some other suggestions based on some assumptions -- possibly wrong -- from the example photo you posted.

The image you posted has artifacts that lead me to believe this was underexposed and heavily cropped. If you shot at 600mm and still had to crop significantly you are shooting from too far away. Cropping will increase the appearance of any motion blur, and at distances far enough to need to crop while shooting a 600mm lens you've got serious potential for distortion due to humidity, dust, pollution and even atmospheric heat gradients. My estimate from your photo's EXIF and the scene lighting and brightness is you pushed 1.5-2 stops in post, maybe more. Underexposing and pushing in post is going to affect noise, detail and contrast. You would be better off -- particularly with a 1DX -- bumping the ISO so the plane is properly exposed then recovering the highlights in post.

So don't blame the lens, or at least don't blame it entirely. Technique is responsible for a huge amount of the result. Remember that folks successfully shot aircraft-in-flight for decades before IS was developed and managed to get great photos. IS has increased the keeper rate but didn't create this category of photography.

I was about as close to the action you can be at that show. I also hand hold a 300mm when I shoot football and am not fatigued at all. I think it is actually a light lens.

Perfectly Frank wrote in post #17553510
I bought the Tamron 150-600 last year and used it at the Wings Over Camarillo Air Show with my 1D4. I've been shooting Warbirds for about 6 yrs and consider myself reasonably good at panning. I've shot with the Canon 300 f2.8 IS II, 500 f4 IS II, and 200-400. Although others can pan better, I can shoot at 1/160s (@ 420mm and 560mm) and bring home a bucket full of keepers.

But...when I shot prop planes with my Tamron 150-600, my keeper rate was dreadful. I'd view the images on the LCD and saw most had a great amount of motion blur. VC was on. I increased the shutter speed but the results were still pretty bad. I turned off VC and got slightly better results.

If you check around the net you'll see other prop-plane shooters using the Tammy with similar complaints. One is a member here (BigAl, I believe).
The Tammy does not have mode 2 IS (for panning) like our Canon lenses. Some one, I can't remember where (maybe here or at dpr) said they contacted
Tamron tech support about poor panning results. Tech rep told them not to use VC when panning.

Now in defense of the Tamron 150-600 there is a flickr member who gets great results panning at slow shutter speeds with his Tammy. My hat's off to him.
But I could not get it to work, so I ebayed it. For static shots the Tammy's IQ was great. But I bought it for air shows, so I had to give it up.

Sorry I am late to this thread, but I figured I would reply for the benefit of those looking for information, especially on the Tamron 150-600. As Frank says I rented a Tamron 150-600 for an airshow, and here in the UK it seems our safety distances are often quite significantly bigger than in the US, at least for big shows. I used the Tamron with the VC on, and even when shooting at the middle of the range got far worse results than I would have got from using my unstabilised Sigma 28-300. So I contacted Tamron UK and was told by a rep that the VC system is not designed to operate in panning mode, unlike their other lenses, apparently the VC system they have just cannot cope with the magnification at 600mm. The lens did seem to work OK when I was able to get the shutter speed up around 1/1000, I guess that gives an idea of the amount of feedback the system is suffering from. Pretty much the only useable images at 1/160 were aircraft directly (or very close to) approaching/departing. The Tamron instruction sheet that came with the rented lens did say (in microscopic print) to turn off the VC when panning. This is a design FEATURE of the Tamron, so it is not going to be fixed, without a new version of the lens being released. I went back to renting the 100-400 MK I for shows after that.

I am though planning on acquiring a Sigma Contemporary. I would have like to try renting one first, but the place I use already has the Tamrons, so is not planning on getting any of the Sigmas. I have tried a Sigma C out on stationary subjects and the results were very impressive, and I am sure the OS system will be fine, I think I have seen enough results from others to be sure of that, as it has an OS panning mode.

The one big advantage that I see from digital over film, is that one can simply stack the odds in ones favour when shooting at these extremes of focal length and shutter speed. Quantity will always help. I can afford a keeper rate of 10% or under when I can shoot 3000 images during a show. I tend to favour three shot bursts at 5-6 fps, often the middle one will be OK, while the first and last will often have a lot more vertical movement, as you press/release the shutter button. Oh and I always use BBF. Back in my film days, in the late 70's or early 80's I got a really good shoulder pod system, which unfortunately went missing when I moved house at some point. It placed the "driving" hand out in front on a pistol grip. Unfortunately though it is no longer made, it was a Dixons own brand, sold under the Prinz branding they used. I haven't been able to find anything similar to replace it though. Add separate AF and shutter buttons and it would be great.

Alan

^^ Great flickr shots, Alan. And thanks for the extra info about the Tammy.

Speaking of a shoulder pod, last year I bought off ebay a Bush hawk shoulder-mount device. The company that makes them is no longer in business, so I bought used. I thought it might help with panning aircraft, and holding the camera steady. Unfortunately, after using it at an air show all day, it didn't really help. In fact, it made shooting a bit awkward. But I'm still open to experimenting with a support device if I think it might help.

I got a 2 day air show next month. I plan on renting the Canon 400 DO II which I'll use with & without the 1.4xIII
I did this at my last air show, and it makes a great alternative to the Canon 500 F4 II (lighter, smaller, less expensive).
Then I have to decide to rent either the 100-400 II (again) or give the Sigma 150-600 a try. Maybe rent both.

Hey, Seaninsa, don't forget next month...Wings Over Camarillo

http://wingsovercamari​llo.com/

You were shooting Dreadnought!! This is a very fast Sea Fury. As others have said, if you're not panning fast enough, you won't get the shot. Sometimes, you're just not going to get the shot... they go by very quickly!

I use 1/80 if the plane is taking off or landing, but on a high speed pass, I speed it up a lot. The second image is 1/250. I didn't get the full prop circle, but it's still blurred. I can't stand frozen props!

seaninsa wrote in post #17550157
Here is one of the blurred images.

Since this thread has bumped back up again, I thought I would let you know that I got the Sigma 150-600 C, and just in time for the last show of the UK season at the Shuttleworth collection at Old Warden Beds. I took some stunning shots at 600mm 1/160s.

This one was shot at 1/160 f/6.3 at ISO 100 on my 50D. For ths show I was using a shoulder pod that I adapted from one of the 15mm rod systems that are often used for DSLR video,

Photo from BigAl007's gallery.
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Photo from BigAl007's gallery.
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Photo from BigAl007's gallery.
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Photo from BigAl007's gallery.
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Photo from BigAl007's gallery.
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Photo from BigAl007's gallery.
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Flynlow wrote in post #17865947
... I use 1/80 if the plane is taking off or landing,

I used to do that too, until I realized that the prop is loafing along on landing & going like H on takeoff!
The F-4 is 1/60 sec. @ 400mm w/70-200 f/2.8 w/2X TC & no IS.
F4U-5 Corsair

Some panning threads for Seaninsa: First shoot with moving cars need advice.

First Attempt at Panning

seaninsa wrote in post #17550207
Why would i shoot a prop plane so fast? When shooting props if you shoot that fast you are going to have still props and looks horrible. With props you want to be anywhere between 1/160th to maybe 1/250th of a second. Thousands of a sec I am going to have "Frozen" props and the pics are going to be horrible.

I know this an old thread, but still going to throw this in there. If the question is whether or not the lens is a problem, this would be a basic, troubleshooting step that you can do as the photographer; simply removing the known, potential problem of having too slow of a shutter speed. Once you've answered that question you can move on to other steps if it doesn't solve the problem, or find that that is the thing you need to work on.


One thing that's a relatively new development on the Tammy front, since this thread started, is that they have subsequently released a firmware update for this lens to fix the troubles with VC not working while panning. Anyone that has this lens and suspects they're running into that (most aircraft photogs that own it, I would imagine) should check their serial number against the site and send the lens in for free update if it falls in the quoted serial number ranges.

Canon: http://www.tamron-usa.com/about/updates_​canon.php
Nikon: http://www.tamron-usa.com/about/updates_​nikon.php

I like 1/80 because I can slow the prop and still keep the photo sharp. On takeoff or landing, the plane itself is moving slow, but on a high-speed pass there's no chance of getting a good panning shot at 1/80.

PhotosGuy wrote in post #17868715
I used to do that too, until I realized that the prop is loafing along on landing & going like H on takeoff!
The F-4 is 1/60 sec. @ 400mm w/70-200 f/2.8 w/2X TC & no IS.
F4U-5 Corsair

Some panning threads for Seaninsa: First shoot with moving cars need advice.

First Attempt at Panning

Flynlow wrote in post #17865947
The second image is 1/250. I didn't get the full prop circle, but it's still blurred.

It's still a great image!

Snydremark wrote in post #17868722
One thing that's a relatively new development on the Tammy front, since this thread started, is that they have subsequently released a firmware update for this lens to fix the troubles with VC not working while panning. Anyone that has this lens and suspects they're running into that (most aircraft photogs that own it, I would imagine) should check their serial number against the site and send the lens in for free update if it falls in the quoted serial number ranges.

Good to know. I never could get my Tammy to work with prop planes at slow shutter speeds.