Any serious FF Canon mirrorless on the horizon?

mclaren777 wrote in post #17581565
True, but I don't think that was Canon's intent.

They know that the mirrorless market is still small potatoes, and it seems obvious to me that they aren't going to go all-in until that changes.

People like to call Canon foolish for its current offering, but I'm 100% confident that its top brass knows far more than we do. I bet they are intimately aware of the market trends on a level we couldn't comprehend.

the idea that canon is somehow omnipotent is really absurd. They're the top of the game, so right now, they're a reactive type company.

Sony is developing like mad, and they have grabbed a niche that nobody bothered. Volume of mirrorless full frame went from scant (leica only), to plentiful in a few short years. It's only a matter of time before canon and nikon introduce a FF mirrorless mount. If they want to start when sony is fully established, then they can, however, that's risky business. They can have the rug swept beneath their feet with little notice.

Windows phone and blackberry were reactive companies..... now they're niche at best.

mclaren777 wrote in post #17581565
True, but I don't think that was Canon's intent.

They know that the mirrorless market is still small potatoes, and it seems obvious to me that they aren't going to go all-in until that changes.

People like to call Canon foolish for its current offering, but I'm 100% confident that its top brass knows far more than we do. I bet they are intimately aware of the market trends on a level we couldn't comprehend.

Yup just like any big US company. Being in tech look at Microsoft, Nokia, Black Berry, Intel, Cisco. All so dominant in their areas but now a days no where due to top brass living in some dream world.

bobbyz wrote in post #17581703
Yup just like any big US company. Being in tech look at Microsoft, Nokia, Black Berry, Intel, Cisco. All so dominant in their areas but now a days no where due to top brass living in some dream world.

Blockbuster, Kodak, Motorola, Palm, etc etc etc

Charlie wrote in post #17581689
The idea that canon is somehow omnipotent is really absurd.

I'm not suggesting that Canon is omnipotent. I know it could stumble, but right now its playing a smart game.

Continue leading the dominant market (DSLR cameras), continue developing more patents than any other photography company, and continue being profitable.

I know many of you like mirrorless cameras, but I really think you're overstating their significance, both now and for the next 3-5 years.

Charlie wrote in post #17581689
the idea that canon is somehow omnipotent is really absurd. They're the top of the game, so right now, they're a reactive type company.

It's the pitfall of being a large public traded company trying to appease shareholders in the short-term. Constantly innovating is very capital intensive and eats into your operating margins, ultimately making earnings look less attractive to investors. As a technology company its important to adopt a culture of innovation (i.e. google) and to pitch the potential upside to investor. Canon embraced that culture at one point and it positioned them were they are today, but it does not currently exist within the company.

Charlie wrote in post #17581689
Sony is developing like mad, and they have grabbed a niche that nobody bothered. Volume of mirrorless full frame went from scant (leica only), to plentiful in a few short years. It's only a matter of time before canon and nikon introduce a FF mirrorless mount. If they want to start when sony is fully established, then they can, however, that's risky business. They can have the rug swept beneath their feet with little notice.

Brilliant of Sony, IMO, to position themselves to succeed in the 'blue ocean' of affordable mirrorless full frame cameras, and to shift away from the declining 'red ocean' market for DSLR's. There will be an inflection point where mirrorless cameras begin to outperform DSLR's, and mirrorless cameras eventually become the dominant format. When that time comes, Sony will have already solidified their position as a leader in this space.

mclaren777 wrote in post #17581948
I'm not suggesting that Canon is omnipotent. I know it could stumble, but right now its playing a smart game.

Continue leading the dominant market (DSLR cameras), continue developing more patents than any other photography company, and continue being profitable.

DSLR's are in decline and its not a sustainable source of growth in the long term. Positioning yourself to be a leader in a declining market is not smart. i.e., Blackberry had an industry leading keyboard up to the moment of its demise. Canon's imaging division is losing money and the only reason the corporation as a whole is not in the same position as Nikon is because of the performance of its other business units (i.e. commercial printers).

mclaren777 wrote in post #17581948
I know many of you like mirrorless cameras, but I really think you're overstating their significance, both now and for the next 3-5 years.

It's all speculation at this point, but mirrorless technology has progressed extremely rapidly in the past 3 years (thats a fact), and currently mirrorless cameras are just a hair shy of matching DSLR performance (i.e. look how the a6000 compares to the 7D mark II). Assuming this pace continues, there's no reason why mirrorless cameras shouldn't surpass DSLR's in terms of performance within 3-5 years. Once that happens, the value proposition of a mirror is gone and consumers will move on whether Canon does or not.

mystik610 wrote in post #17581936
Blockbuster, Kodak, Motorola, Palm, etc etc etc

I used to work at Palm.))

http://www.canonrumors​.com …ss-digital-camera-market/

Mirrored and mirrorless cameras keep experiencing global declines every year.

It makes you wonder how much longer Sony will stay in the DSLR market.

mclaren777 wrote in post #17583926
It makes you wonder how much longer Sony will stay in the DSLR market.

Given that marketwide revenue for DSLR's declined by 15% last year, and mirrorless cameras grew by 17%, it makes you wonder how long anyone should stay in the DSLR market in the long-run.

mclaren777 wrote in post #17583926
Mirrored and mirrorless cameras keep experiencing global declines every year.

But DSLR's are declining at a greater rate. Also comprehensive sales volume in units doesn't tell the full story. Generally in the market for standalone cameras there is a shift away from low cost, high volume models, to high cost, lower volume models....so low sales volume is expected.

Mirrorless cameras are growing in revenue, despite declining sales volume, while DSLR's are declining in both revenue and sales volume. This points to the fact that mirrorless cameras are winning in the only market segment that will survive against smart-phones (high cost, low volume).

I feel the need to clarify something: your +16.5%/-15% figure only applies to the North American market – NPD doesn't track global sales.

Furthermore, I really doubt that high-end DSLRs will ever go away. There are far too many people like me who prefer their size/shape, regardless of the technology inside of them. Even in 8-10 years when the stars have aligned and mirrorless cameras fully match DSLRs, I hope the major companies still use large, rugged bodies to house all of the internal bits.

mclaren777 wrote in post #17584029
I feel the need to clarify something: your +16.5%/-15% figure only applies to the North American market – NPD doesn't track global sales.

Furthermore, I really doubt that high-end DSLRs will ever go away. There are far too many people like me who prefer their size/shape, regardless of the technology inside of them. Even in 8-10 years when the stars have aligned and mirrorless cameras fully match DSLRs, I hope the major companies still use large, rugged bodies to house all of the internal bits.

Mirrorless cameras sell better outside of north America. The fascination with DSLR's is an American thing. I would expect that if you pulled global sales data into the npd report, it would have a favorable impact on the mirrorleas results.

The transition to mirrorless doesn't necessarily equate to the end of large cameras, as the need for larger bodies will always exist....particularly as we shift towards the higher value cameras. I.e. Sony's mirrorless cameras and lenses are progresssively getting bigger as they become more attractive to serious shooters.

That's said, mirrorless cameras do have distinct advantages outside of size alone, and as the technology progresses , we should expect mirrrors to disappear from big cameras like the 1DX as well.

mclaren777 wrote in post #17584029
I feel the need to clarify something: your +16.5%/-15% figure only applies to the North American market – NPD doesn't track global sales.

Furthermore, I really doubt that high-end DSLRs will ever go away. There are far too many people like me who prefer their size/shape, regardless of the technology inside of them. Even in 8-10 years when the stars have aligned and mirrorless cameras fully match DSLRs, I hope the major companies still use large, rugged bodies to house all of the internal bits.

I don't know which world you live but my XT-1 can do much better in tracking that what my 6d did. fps wise it does even better than my 5dmk3. With someone coming at me running, it does better that even some of the canon 1 series. That is saying a lot. I have a sequence of 20 shots and all in focus. Now it fails when I need to move say from 1st base to 2nd base quickly as camera tries to focus on the back ground. But all these things are improving with newer firmware.

Video on panasonic models is real nice. Olympus tracks pretty good. Sony FF picture quality is hard to beat up. If you shooting landscapes etc. no contest with canon. Slower AF on sony FF doesn't matter much for that case. Looking forward to Sony putting A6000 AF into next FF mirrorless.

bobbyz wrote in post #17581703
Yup just like any big US company. Being in tech look at Microsoft, Nokia, Black Berry, Intel, Cisco. All so dominant in their areas but now a days no where due to top brass living in some dream world.

By what possible measure is Intel "nowhere" nowadays?