What is it like when you start out proffesionaly

So i tried searching this subject and all that I come across is how to become a professional. I want to know what its like in todays market? Especially when just starting out. Not having a name or client base? Not having tons of resources etc. I know a few proffesional photogs but the most recent one started about 15 years ago. They have all given me advice and the low down but I was hoping to find someone whos started out more recently. Id like to go into fashion/glamour but Id like to know about wedding/potrait as well becasue it seems that theres more of a demand for that photography.

The reason I ask is Im looking at going back to college and aquiring my associates. Id like go for phtography. As for taking buisness admin or finance or something (more than one pro photog has told me to do that), I already have managment experience in the real world and I think I would benefit from photgraphy more. I may turn phtography into a bachelors with minor in buissness admin or economics and eventually get a MiM (Masters in Management, its an MBA for people who dont have degrees in buisness, aimed at people who want to start buisnesses)

When just starting out... realistically expect to work double the hours of a 9-5 and expect to be working 6-7 days per week. You'll end up eating, sleeping and dreaming business. Also allow for the very real possibility of not turning a profit / being sustainable for around 2-3 years, most don't. You'll need to be able to cover the lack of income and possible loss of investment before you start out or be ready for the risk.

Weddings / portraits is a market with a decreasing demand curve and an increasing supply curve. The fact more people are advertising services in those arenas doesn't mean there is more work than before to be had... in fact quite the opposite.

Personally I wouldn't do a photography degree, not for the genres you are looking at. I'd do a degree which will give you a solid business base and one that is transferable to other careers / industries should your venture into photography fail. Failure rates being very high within the industry you are much better off having a solid plan B. Being perfectly honest though (and not knowing your age)... if you have some business smarts already and you have the photography skills already I'd avoid spending money on any degree for the time being. If you can make it in the photography game without doing either you'll save yourself a whole heap of debt that you'd acquire doing a degree.

My recommendation to anyone starting in the domestic genres these days is to start up part time with photography being a non essential secondary income. Have your primary income from elsewhere. Build the business over 1-3 years and then assess where you are at. Then either take the jump to full time or don't. Most photographers in the domestic genres these days are part timers in one way or another and that trend is continuing.

Better to make a calculated risk entering this industry than a high risk one IMHO.

I have plans B and C already, lol. I hold two computer related degrees and am a certified welder. I only have to work part time, as I do now, with my wife's income. I make our play money and the babysitter money. The degree, at least my associates, won't cost me a dime courtesy of uncle Sam

I honestly can't see the point in bothering with a degree at all then. A waste of time that could be spent better on planning, building and developing the business.

Maybe I'll look into auditing the actual photography classes I'm interested in. It'd cost about 2000 but I could go for business or something. I'm more looking at getting exposure to equipment that I don't own/can't afford and having a hand on learning experience, which it's how I learn the best

Its hard, I am at year 2, the income I have earned has paid for equipment, books and online classes, adverts and insurances.

While the business is self sustaining, it won't begin to provide profits until August this year. So year three should pay me minimum wage.

That's very much inline with memories assessment.

Regarding a degree, I would look very hard at the syllabus, how much is relevant? Are the tutors still working professionals?

I looked at a photography degree 3 years ago, it seemed to focus on film and darkroom techniques for 2 years, with the final year looking at digital, subjects were things and places, no real mention of business at all. A film camera was a requirement!

I would be looking for a course that contained, digital and digital workflow, business with a focus on website design, SEO and social media. Making sure that people are subject matter as well as things and places.

If you can afford it without debt, and you find it relevant then it won't do you any harm, but nor will it make your business happen.

I'm a "new professional", I quit my other job about 6 months ago. It's a crappy market, whether you go to school or not. I've interviewed and chatted with recent graduates, they didn't seem any more prepared to run a photography business than a lot of my uneducated peers.

Youtube and internet forums cover everything you'd ever need to pick up on the technical side. Making industry contacts isn't as tough as it sounds, if your work is solid people will be happy to network.

The best classes are on creativelive and Kelby one, working professionals being honest (ish) about everything.

If you spent 2 grand on that instead of a degree course you would probably have a far more rounded knowledge, better than sitting in lecture halls and forgetting half of what is taught.

gmm213 wrote in post #17581881
So i tried searching this subject and all that I come across is how to become a professional. I want to know what its like in todays market? Especially when just starting out. Not having a name or client base? Not having tons of resources etc. I know a few proffesional photogs but the most recent one started about 15 years ago. They have all given me advice and the low down but I was hoping to find someone whos started out more recently. Id like to go into fashion/glamour but Id like to know about wedding/potrait as well becasue it seems that theres more of a demand for that photography.

The reason I ask is Im looking at going back to college and aquiring my associates. Id like go for phtography. As for taking buisness admin or finance or something (more than one pro photog has told me to do that), I already have managment experience in the real world and I think I would benefit from photgraphy more. I may turn phtography into a bachelors with minor in buissness admin or economics and eventually get a MiM (Masters in Management, its an MBA for people who dont have degrees in buisness, aimed at people who want to start buisnesses)

I think the college environment to learn photography and building a business is too slow , unispiring, and a waste of resources. Fashion and glamour photography is better learned in a busy city such as NY, Miami, LA, etc through internships, assisting, tutorials, personal experience, etc. Colleges for creative arts are mostly filled with teachers and students who have not busy enough with real work and success. It is better to invest in business education, keep your photography a part time passion, and use income from other work to fund your equipment. If you are unwilling to relocate to a good market, then you are better off doing photography part time. Networking, communication skills, and personal contacts are everything in the photography business.

I agree with most of the advice you have received- a degree or college courses are not going to open many doors in the photography industry.

portfolio- communication skills - realistic business plan - marketing - all these things are worth more as a professional photographer than the degree.

If you plan on going back to school to learn the technical side of the business- I would think your time/money would be better spent doing it on your own. Join a local photography group, get on model mayhem and set up some shoots, volunteer to be an unpaid assistant to working pros in your area, and shoot until your camera breaks.

Some threads to read up on:

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1239301
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1374675
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=496491
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1323907
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=729559
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=206967
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=299288
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=629883
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=754501
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1001117
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1132549
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1195837
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=790611

A few different spins on going pro / getting a degree / how to make the transition. Probably a solid 20 to 30 minutes of reading for you to do. But if you're considering making it a profession, it's likely time well spent (and cheaper than making the same mistakes yourself).

It also depends on how you are starting. Are you jumping in and this is your sole source of income or do you have a steady income and you can start as a hobby? I have a steady income from a day job so that is how I was able to afford all of my gear.

I am just getting to the point where I am thinking about getting more serious about it as a profession. Here is where I am:

1. Bought a camera and shot a bunch of things. Just walked around and shot street but also some landscapes. Mostly I would take photos my family - Christmas card shots as well as any other holiday or occasion where they would be dressed up. When showing photos to your clients they do not know if you know the subjects personally or not.

2. Got lucky and found a guy to second shoot for. I would check Craigslist and the Help wanted section on this site and others in my area to see if anyone needed help. I found a guy who needed more of the "lugging gear around" type help but it got me my first 10 or so shots for my wedding portfolio.

3. Two separate friends of mine each got engaged. I asked to do their engagement photos and they were OK with it because we could always redo them or they could get a "real" photographer if I sucked that bad.

4. All of my friends know I am trying to get my photo business started. They have all seen my photos because they follow me on facebook. The 3 weddings I have booked this summer were all booked the same way: a friend of a friend was looking for a cheap wedding photographer. That friend thought of me and got us in touch. They then booked me based on my portfolio as shot in 1 - 3 above.

I am no where near doing this full time yet but I did zero marketing this year and have 3 weddings. I hope with a little more time to devote to it this year I can book 10 weddings for next season.

All of my current weddings are for very close friends so doing it without a contract has not worried me. However I have made sure in emails to specifically say what my experience is so if they every came back I could point to it and say you knew I am not an experienced professional. Is it as iron clad as a contract? No. But it would help. I am getting to the point that if I book any weddings for next year (i.e. not for close friends) I will definitely have a contract and liability insurance.

It all happens so fast so whatever you can do now that is easy/free - do it. I remember when the first wedding client asked my prices and I picked a number out of thin air. It would be nice if you had a PDF or write up of what your typical packages are and you can do it now so when the time comes you are ready. Same with a contract, delivery method, print policy etc.

Digital technology has eliminated most of the advantages of photo school. The biggest advantage is the access to industry professionals, networking, and the internships that can flow from that. So unless you are planning to go to a top flight photo program like Brooks, the forget photo school and take business classes instead.

I have a regular career to fall back on... However I started last year after years of just hobby photography. My hope is to do nights and weekends and possibly get something together that helps my wife to stay home with our kids. I don't ever see this making me the money I make at my full time job, but who knows... any photographers on here making 120k a year plus?

To start I just cold called about an event that I thought would get me a lot of exposure. The head of marketing told me they had a photographer for the event but they liked my website and another event I did.. They said I could shoot as their photographer and paid me in Beer (they are a brewery) I submitted my photos after the event with better quality and faster and they gave me their events since then and that was over a year ago, they have been hiring me very regularly. These events have gotten me in front of a lot of people and my name is starting to grow in the area... Hopefully it continues.

Really, ultimately, the thing that is going to make you successful is hard work. Do the job faster and better than the person before you. Knowing how to run a business will help too fortunately my full time career gives me that knowledge.

electricme wrote in post #17582654
I have a regular career to fall back on... However I started last year after years of just hobby photography. My hope is to do nights and weekends and possibly get something together that helps my wife to stay home with our kids. I don't ever see this making me the money I make at my full time job, but who knows... any photographers on here making 120k a year plus?

To start I just cold called about an event that I thought would get me a lot of exposure. The head of marketing told me they had a photographer for the event but they liked my website and another event I did.. They said I could shoot as their photographer and paid me in Beer (they are a brewery) I submitted my photos after the event with better quality and faster and they gave me their events since then and that was over a year ago, they have been hiring me very regularly. These events have gotten me in front of a lot of people and my name is starting to grow in the area... Hopefully it continues.

Really, ultimately, the thing that is going to make you successful is hard work. Do the job faster and better than the person before you. Knowing how to run a business will help too fortunately my full time career gives me that knowledge.

I shot an event last Halloween. Did it for free as they already hired another photographer and I really wanted to get into this party and the shots would look awesome for my portfolio. Not only was I told my photos were better, I had them done the next morning before the guy even woke up. The paid photographer didn't submit his for nearly 2 weeks. I've done a couple events since then and they have already inquired about the same event this Halloween too.