New to Flash - help me buy an OCF setup for my 6D

I just noticed you updated your comment, and I'm glad you did. I think I'm going to go with the 560TX and 560 III or IV (2 for now, use the extra money to get some stands/soft boxes). But it looks like you also sort of answered the next question I had.

If I pick up a pair of cheap impact stands and some soft boxes, what mount do I need to get? I see the stands just have a threaded head so I'm assuming there's something else I need to get.

Taylor02GT wrote in post #17583929
I just noticed you updated your comment, and I'm glad you did. I think I'm going to go with the 560TX and 560 III or IV (2 for now, use the extra money to get some stands/soft boxes). But it looks like you also sort of answered the next question I had.

If I pick up a pair of cheap impact stands and some soft boxes, what mount do I need to get? I see the stands just have a threaded head so I'm assuming there's something else I need to get.

Heya,

Two Neewer light stands, $28.
Some Neewer 24 x 24" softboxes are fantastic, and about $30. (These come with mounts, but honestly, I'd use an s-bracket instead, for security and stability).
43" Westscott Umbrella, $20.
Godox S-bracket (Bowens), for speedlites. $20.

Just choose umbrella or softbox. Softbox has better control of light spill, but is smaller, and less portable. The umbrellas are super portable and very versatile. Bigger too. I'd start with umbrellas. I use my softbox more for portrait. The umbrella however is so awesome for portability that I gravitate that way often too.

560TX & 2x 560III's for a great price. $170ish.

Hoya 77mm 3 stop ND filter, $40. Great quality filter. I use two of these when I want to drop ambient light and use synch speed and normal flash in bright sun, with wide aperture or to make more dramatic light.

Rosco Gels, $10+. These are great for mixing ambient and flash outside.

Then just get batteries. Samsung/Enloop rechargeable AA's are excellent.

**************

Real world use of the above stuff (Yongnuo 560 III, just one! Neewer softbox 24x24, cheap light stand, 1/4th CTO Gel for blending ambient; ND filters to drop ambient light in bright sun):

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/raEM​mZ

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/sdew​LC

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/t9ZB​SA

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/sdet​rm

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/oKvD​TB

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/t7DZ​as

Taylor02GT wrote in post #17583861
Thank you for this response, I cannot express how helpful this was. I was a bit hesitant to post this thread in fear of being ridiculed for not researching. I've been reading up on ETTL, HSS, and different methods by looking through threads on this forum as well as some Flickr discussions but the general feeling I got coming away from the reading was just overwhelming. I have been shooting digital photography for 10 years and all of it has been using natural lighting. As of recently, I finally upgraded to an affordable full frame (6D), my first full frame ever, and have been really wanting to take my hobby to the next level. This is, like I said, a hobby for me and I just want to learn lighting.

I've added the Lighting 101 from Strobist to my bookmarks, I can't wait to get started reading that. I've also bookmarked some good discussions on flashhavoc.

So let me ask a silly question. So the YN560II has a built in YN603. So if I had a YN603CIII attached to my camera, I would be able to trigger the 560III? This setup would be manual, and not have ETTL/HSS. But that might be ok for me after all? I guess for some reason I was set on HSS because I like to shoot at wide apertures for portraits. But maybe I'm misunderstanding the concept of sync speed? Or maybe I could compensate by purchasing a filter for my lens? If I wanted to add an additional 560III would the single YN603CIII on my camera be able to trigger both flashes?

As for my use, I shoot primarily cars. This is an example from over a year ago of a shot I would have loved to had more lighting for.

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/m89X​ca Five Oh | Sunset 2 by Taylor Hockman, on Flickr

So a multiple flash set-up does sound appealing to me. I also want to start using flash for outdoor portraits of my daughter, wife, or the rare instance I do portraits for friends/family. Here's another example, had I known how to use flash I could have turned her a different direction and not had the harsh sunlight, shot a bit later in the evening, and had flash to assist.

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/p1SZ​X1 Kensley | One Year (Teaser2) by Taylor Hockman, on Flickr

I've been using flash for 40+ years, and I'm still trying to figure it all out. Patience. Lots of new stuff to learn here.

Just a comment about your daughter's photo. I don't think you needed to wait for the golden hour to improve that shot. I would have tried turning her so her back was almost directly pointing at the sun, may 15-30 degrees off-center. That could turn the sun into a hair-light for you, free of charge. A tighter shot, with about -1.33 FEC for fill, may have improved the results. It also looks to me like you are shooting without a hood. A proper hood could help the saturation and control that flare. Please take this all with a grain of salt, I was not there, and am just offering a suggestion. With subject matter that cute, you really need to be on your game!

EDIT: I see umbrellas have been mentioned. About 5 years ago I got a set from Cowboy Studios for $36 that contained: two dual-use (reflector, shoot-through) 36" umbrellas, two 6' stands, a mini-stand, and 3 cold-shoes for mounting. It all folds down into very portable carry/travel case. It was a nice beginner set. I am still using it

MalVeauX wrote in post #17583948
Heya,

Two Neewer light stands, $28.
Some Neewer 24 x 24" softboxes are fantastic, and about $30. (These come with mounts, but honestly, I'd use an s-bracket instead, for security and stability).
43" Westscott Umbrella, $20.
Godox S-bracket (Bowens), for speedlites. $20.

Just choose umbrella or softbox. Softbox has better control of light spill, but is smaller, and less portable. The umbrellas are super portable and very versatile. Bigger too. I'd start with umbrellas. I use my softbox more for portrait. The umbrella however is so awesome for portability that I gravitate that way often too.

560TX & 2x 560III's for a great price. $170ish.

Hoya 77mm 3 stop ND filter, $40. Great quality filter. I use two of these when I want to drop ambient light and use synch speed and normal flash in bright sun, with wide aperture or to make more dramatic light.

Rosco Gels, $10+. These are great for mixing ambient and flash outside.

Then just get batteries. Samsung/Enloop rechargeable AA's are excellent.

**************

Real world use of the above stuff (Yongnuo 560 III, just one! Neewer softbox 24x24, cheap light stand, 1/4th CTO Gel for blending ambient; ND filters to drop ambient light in bright sun):

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/raEM​mZ IMG_2536 by Martin Wise, on Flickr

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/sdew​LC IMG_7852 by Martin Wise, on Flickr

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/t9ZB​SA IMG_7853 by Martin Wise, on Flickr

ND filters stacked up:

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/sdet​rm IMG_7854 by Martin Wise, on Flickr

... And here's what this inexpensive lighting equipment can do, even during day light (nd filters to stop it down):

https://flic.kr/p/oKvD​TBIMG_9940_marked by Martin Wise, on Flickr

https://flic.kr/p/t7DZ​asIMG_3929 by Martin Wise, on Flickr

Very best,

This is PERFECT. Thank you for including those links, adding it to my cart now! Now I recognize your screen name, I've been following your posts over in the "Show us your setup and final results thread". You do great work!

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17583962
I've been using flash for 40+ years, and I'm still trying to figure it all out. Patience. Lots of new stuff to learn here.

Just a comment about your daughter's photo. I don't think you needed to wait for the golden hour to improve that shot. I would have tried turning her so her back was almost directly pointing at the sun, may 15-30 degrees off-center. That could turn the sun into a hair-light for you, free of charge. A tighter shot, with about -1.33 FEC for fill, may have improved the results. It also looks to me like you are shooting without a hood. A proper hood could help the saturation and control that flare. Please take this all with a grain of salt, I was not there, and am just offering a suggestion. With subject matter that cute, you really need to be on your game!

Hey thank you! Critique is always welcome. This was definitely one of those photoshoots where I look back and say, man I should have done this or that differently. I left a lot on the table. I'm always scared to shoot directly into the sun, at that time I was having a hard time understanding how to expose the photo and/or adjust it post. I tried to but the sun behind me but it was too bright for her and she couldn't open her eyes. So I went with this hoping I could fix the highlights in post but I couldn't without making the photo look odd. But, it was a learning experience and that's all that matters. There will be a next time,I wont' give up! Thanks for the input!

I think the shot of the little girl has a lot of potential as is. I am PM-ing you with my e-mail address.

Well, I just placed my order. Total was 250.00

YN 560 TX C
YN 560EX IV x2
Neewer 9' Studio Light Stands
Neewer 24" Soft Boxes w/ Mounts/Brackets

My plan is to use this set-up to learn. Then eventually expand to an additional 560EX IV, GodOx S-bracket, and some ND filters for both my 50 STM and the 24-105L.

Thank you to all who contributed to this thread!

Heya,

Just a tip, when you go to mount your speedlites into the mounts that come with those softboxes, I think you'll find they're too short to fit into the hole and it will sit down and at an angle. Just a thought. This is why I suggest the s-bracket mounts to remove this issue as the s-bracket sandwiches the flash at the head, and removes the hotshoe as the mounting point (also safer for your flash if it falls over!).

Also, when you put your flashes in those softboxes, the zoom length on the flash should be set to 24mm (the widest spread) for the best effect in terms of getting soft, even, diffuse light. Start around 1/4th power and play with it from there. Don't be afraid to use ISO to get the flash power up for the settings. It's common to start with ISO 200 because it's an extra stop of light from the flash, with near zero difference in image quality. Granted, that's not what you want when you're trying to stop ambient light down, but if you're shooting studio like settings at F8 or more narrow, this is where that becomes very handy to get more light.

ISO and flash are your friend. Experiment with lower flash power and higher ISO. The reason is, you get faster cycle time on your flash, at lower power, so more shots. This is a pro-tip when shooting kids where your miss moments because the flash can't fire as it's recycling. When shooting at ISO 400~1600 and a flash at 1/16~1/64th power, you'll see a big difference in how fast you can pop flashes and take shots, rather than waiting a few seconds at 1/1 power and ISO 100. Again, experiment with this.

Have fun!

Very best,

MalVeauX wrote in post #17584045
Just a tip, when you go to mount your speedlites into the mounts that come with those softboxes, I think you'll find they're too short to fit into the hole and it will sit down and at an angle. Just a thought. This is why I suggest the s-bracket mounts to remove this issue as the s-bracket sandwiches the flash at the head, and removes the hotshoe as the mounting point (also safer for your flash if it falls over!)

Lots of good advice but I am not sure what you mean by "too short". Can you explain?
(I have a Cowboy Studios softbox with the same mount and it was adjustable enough to work for me)

msowsun wrote in post #17584092
Lots of good advice but I am not sure what you mean by "too short". Can you explain?
(I have a Cowboy Studios softbox with the same mount and it was adjustable enough to work for me)

Heya,

So as you move the bracket up/down to make the speedlite meet the entrance to the softbox, depending on the flash, it will restrict how much angle you can put on the ballhead that it comes with (which is not that sturdy to begin with). So if you then try to put that above subject, at 45 degrees and angle down, it's going to be a problem without a boom. I found it restricting because I'm often putting my lights up and over my subjects, and the way those hotshoe mounts work with that front plate make it hard to actually use the ballhead to use different angles.

I find the s-brackets to be a massive relief from that.

Very best,

MalVeauX wrote in post #17584122
Heya,

So as you move the bracket up/down to make the speedlite meet the entrance to the softbox, depending on the flash, it will restrict how much angle you can put on the ballhead that it comes with (which is not that sturdy to begin with). So if you then try to put that above subject, at 45 degrees and angle down, it's going to be a problem without a boom. I found it restricting because I'm often putting my lights up and over my subjects, and the way those hotshoe mounts work with that front plate make it hard to actually use the ballhead to use different angles.

I find the s-brackets to be a massive relief from that.

Very best,

Yes, I understand now... I noticed the same thing so I ordered a S Type Mount but it is on a slow boat from China.

In the mean time I jury rigged an L bracket like this......

So, let's talk hypotheticals for a bit since I'm way too excited for these to arrive. Let's start with my car photo I posted previously. If I had that same situation happen again at dusk with these two new 560EXs, where would I start with my camera settings? I realize with only two strobes and an entire car there's a chance I may have to do multiple exposures and stitch them together in Photoshop. So I'd probably set up one flash camera left at front of the car and one camera right at the front wheel/quarter panel.

90% of the time, I shoot in aperture priority mode. Depending on my situation I usually let the 6D choose ISO (because it has such stellar ISO performance) but occasionally I'll lock it at ISO 100. I'm not afraid of Manual at all.

So now that I've got my flashes set up, I'm looking at switching to Manual, no? Set ISO at 200, speedlights at 1/4. I'd be shooting with my 24-105L most likely. I'm quickly realizing I don't fully understand what aperture/shutter/expos​ure value I'll need to deal with. So overwhelming haha

Taylor02GT wrote in post #17584177
...............If I had that same situation happen again at dusk with these two new 560EXs, where would I start with my camera settings?.............​..

When using flash it is always a good idea to use Manual mode on the camera. With your Mustang photo you had f/2.8 and 1/320 and ISO 100.

Flash settings are mostly trial and error.

If you wanted to go back and shoot the same car under the same conditions you would have to change the shutter speed to your max sync speed. The 6D has a max sync speed of 1/180 so you would have to stop down to about to about f/4 to get roughly the same overall exposure.

Because you are now using flash, I would stop it down to at least f/5.6 to slightly underexpose the ambient lighting, and then use flash to illuminate the subject.

The Manual flash power setting would depend greatly on how far away you are, so trial and error is the only way to go.

Taylor02GT wrote in post #17584177
So, let's talk hypotheticals for a bit since I'm way too excited for these to arrive. Let's start with my car photo I posted previously. If I had that same situation happen again at dusk with these two new 560EXs, where would I start with my camera settings? I realize with only two strobes and an entire car there's a chance I may have to do multiple exposures and stitch them together in Photoshop. So I'd probably set up one flash camera left at front of the car and one camera right at the front wheel/quarter panel.

90% of the time, I shoot in aperture priority mode. Depending on my situation I usually let the 6D choose ISO (because it has such stellar ISO performance) but occasionally I'll lock it at ISO 100. I'm not afraid of Manual at all.

So now that I've got my flashes set up, I'm looking at switching to Manual, no? Set ISO at 200, speedlights at 1/4. I'd be shooting with my 24-105L most likely. I'm quickly realizing I don't fully understand what aperture/shutter/expos​ure value I'll need to deal with. So overwhelming haha

Heya,

You can do it in one exposure just fine.

There's lots of ways to do this, but here's what I would start with.

Camera settings will be based on exposure of ambient light and depth of field. You don't have to use the maximum synch speed of 1/180s. I would actually just go to 1/100s. Stop down aperture based on depth of field depending on what you want. Use ISO to further adjust ambient light exposure, and it will indirectly also increase the power output of your flash. Where ever the sunset point is, that can be your "rim" light for free, adding a little light to the edge of a side. I would use the flashes at 24mm (widest setting on the flash) and at lower power (starting around 1/16th power and adjusting from there based on taste) to simply add fill light to the car, opposite sides from where the sunset point was. One can be higher power, and act as a key light. The other can just be fill and at lower power. This will give it a more dramatic look without looking "all flashed." The important thing will be to watch for the flash reflections in the car and the last big thing will be to mix ambient and flash light temperatures (flash is 5600k or "daylight" temperature; the ambient light is going to be very different at sunset/dusk, so gelling your flashes to a temperature closer to ambient temperature will have them blend better and not look like obvious flash). Then just play with the power settings for the flashes to taste. It will not take much to fill the car and bring out the lines.

Again, camera settings will be ambient exposure & depth of field. That's all you need to remember in terms of setting your camera. You can easily figure this out with Live View and real time look at it with a histogram. It's really nice to slightly underexpose ambient light by 2~3 stops. So in this case, I'd drop ISO to 100. Shutter to whatever it takes to get exposure you like of ambient light based on whatever aperture you're using (F8, F11, etc, for depth of field), and then you're done with that part of the camera. Then you just bring in flash and that's your other exposure, and the power level will do this part, so just start at a power setting and go up or down based on what you want to see. Light drops off fast the further it is away from the subject, so if you place them far away start at a higher power, if they're up close, start at a lower power. Chimp a few shots and you'll know right away if you need more or less power for what you want it to look like.

Very best,

Everything arrived today. After toying around with it all to get it to work my brother stopped by to drop off some stuff at the house so I stole him for a few minutes to test out some shots. I know I should start a new thread but since you all helped me so much I wanted to update you.

Same photo, for some reason I like the black and white one better. Setup info in the Flickr description. Opinions welcome. I have zero clue what I'm doing. These are literally my first ever attempts with flash.

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/tFeJ​r1

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/uCtQ​iv