Business Insurance

Hey everyone, Im looking for some insurance advice.

I have a couple weddings to shoot in the next couple of months and some of the venues require proof of business insurance. I have photographed 4 weddings in the past and have never had this issue. I figure that business insurance would be a good thing to have in case anything were to go wrong at these events. I have done some research here and there and have found that many plans do not cover sub-contractors.

What do you have in terms of protecting second shooters/ assistants /models you work with on shoots?

For example: What would happen if my second shooter were to hurt themselves/ damage a venue's property / hurt someone else?

Also if a second shooter is using my gear and damages it, how is that covered or is it?

Any advice is much appreciated

I'm about at this point myself. But also wondering if anyone has just formed a limited liability company instead. You could get sued for all your camera gear, but your personal assets would be protected.

Silver-Halide wrote in post #17583739
I'm about at this point myself. But also wondering if anyone has just formed a limited liability company instead. You could get sued for all your camera gear, but your personal assets would be protected.

You still have to hire a lawyer to defend your interests.

Silver-Halide wrote in post #17583739
I'm about at this point myself. But also wondering if anyone has just formed a limited liability company instead. You could get sued for all your camera gear, ......

Not if you personally own your camera gear and your company just rents it off you.

If I have my cameras and lenses held in my LLC, say $8,000, and it costs say $5,000 in a civil suit just to defend myself, it might be best to represent myself and take my chances.

Silver-Halide wrote in post #17584828
If I have my cameras and lenses held in my LLC, say $8,000, and it costs say $5,000 in a civil suit just to defend myself, it might be best to represent myself and take my chances.

I'd imagine with most public liability cases any payouts would be well beyond the $5k or $8k mark. Running an LLC doesn't limit the damages that could be awarded should a case go to court. The amounts awarded would be well beyond that level and see the business go under in style.

Most government / state / council owned venues over here require a minimum of $10 million public liability cover for you to shoot there.

Having public liability insurance is a no brainer as far as I'm concerned.

Uhh.. what? The whole point of an LLC is that only the business assets can be sued for. So that would include the camera equipment and whatever I haven't drawn from the business bank account. 'Piercing the corporate veil' is reserved for only the most egregious of cases involving fraud, commingling with personal assets, etc.

http://www.nolo.com …dia/llc-basics-30163.html

can't argue about the requirements imposed by public venues though.

Only a fool would take a completely avoidable and unnecessary risk of losing their business and livelihood as opposed to paying a relatively cheap annual insurance premium.

Silver,

I think you're expectations of the protections granted by LLCs are a little bit off, you should re-read the website you linked. "While LLC owners enjoy limited personal liability for many of their business transactions, this protection is not absolute."

An LLC can protect your personal assets, under certain circumstances, from being included for compensation of business debts. However, it's very easy for a person running an LLC to accidently "void" that protection, this is especially true in instances where the LLC consists of a single employee.

While some of the value of the judgment may be based on the assets of the defendant, there are other parts of the judgment that will be based solely on the complaint. Additionally, your assuming that if someone sues an LLC, and wins, that the judgment won't exceed the total value of the business's assets. It's very easy for a company to incur debts, including judgments, that are in access of the company's assets and cash reserves. In this case the business's debts are not forgiven. The business must continue to pay off the debts over time. However, this scenario usually results in the business being closed.

Think about it in the case of a car accident. When a poor college student with barely anything to their name kills someone in a drunk driving accident that the student caused, you can be sure that the total judgments awarded in a civil case will definitely far exceed the value of that student's assets.

I appreciate the advice on LLC's however does anyone have any information on the original topic of the thread

Hey everyone, Im looking for some insurance advice. I have a couple weddings to shoot in the next couple of months and some of the venues require proof of business insurance. I have photographed 4 weddings in the past and have never had this issue. I figure that business insurance would be a good thing to have in case anything were to go wrong at these events. I have done some research here and there and have found that many plans do not cover sub-contractors.


What do you have in terms of protecting second shooters/ assistants /models you work with on shoots?

For example: What would happen if my second shooter were to hurt themselves/ damage a venue's property / hurt someone else?

Also if a second shooter is using my gear and damages it, how is that covered or is it? Any advice is much appreciated #1

The best thing for you to do is to just call an insurance professional. Some of the stuff you're asking about can vary depending on your policy. Personally I use Farmer's simply b/c that's where all my car/home insurance is so I know and am comfortable with them. If you call your agent he/she can give you better, more reliable answers than what you'll get here and it will be specific to your situation. More than likely they've dealt with plenty of photographers in the past and can steer you in the right direction.

NeverFollow wrote in post #17585666
I appreciate the advice on LLC's however does anyone have any information on the original topic of the thread

While I don't have experience with this type of insurance, I have no reason to carry it, I would expect that for second shooters you could go one of two ways:
1. Have them provide their own coverage to meet the requirements of the vendor. If you're working with other established shooters there's a chance that they already have this coverage in place.
2. Work with your insurance provider to build in coverage for them. I don't see why an insurer wouldn't be willing to add more people under the coverage. After all, more people to cover means increased risk which in turn means they get to charge you more per month. Ultimately this is just more money in the insurance company's pocket!

As far as damage to your gear while being used by another person, that's a question for the company that provides the coverage. I know for my auto insurance when other people I have driving it crash it, my insurance covers it. However, I know of other people who's insurer will only cover the vehicle when they are driving it. My guess is that when you gear breaks and you submit a claim, the insurer will probably ask you how it was damaged but I doubt they'll ask you who was using it when the damage occurred.

I used to be a Dj, and I checked what my insurance covered before buying. I had for my first year of business because I was on a UK government scheme that paid new starters and it was mandatory. After that I never bothered, but in the 80's venues never requested it. Having said that I'm looking at just getting liability insurance, as my home insurance will cover the equipment.

Colin Glover wrote in post #17599139
Having said that I'm looking at just getting liability insurance, as my home insurance will cover the equipment.

Are you 100% sure? A lot of home insurance excludes equipment used for work.

Thanks for the heads up.