Legitimately Torn Between APS-C and Full Frame Options

A FF will perform marginally better, but not by much. It's like buying a high end mountain bike, you hit a certain threshold where you're paying thousands to shed ounces. The only time I miss having a FF is for the DOF wide open on full body portraits. If I shot landscapes, I'd want as big a sensor as I could afford.

You can pick up an awesome flash for under $200, that would definitely be my first move. It doesn't have to obliterate the ambient light if you're trying to keep a natural feel to the shots. Here's a quick set from the weekend with a 70D, 18-35, and bounced flash in all but 2 of the photos if you're interested.
http://www.simonmellic​kphotography.com …nner-the-mackechnie-house

Great shots and you handled the lighting well with your setup. I've been close to pulling the trigger on a 430EXII but just haven't been able to justify it yet.

On a different topic, have you had front focusing issues with your 18-35? At times I do and it kills me, because otherwise I love that lens. Maybe penny-wise and pound foolish, but I cannot bring myself to buy the dock for $60 when that shouldn't be an issue in the first place.

I own a 430EXII and it sits in my camera bag while I use my Yongnuo 568's.

No real focus issues with the lens. Obviously it misses focus once in a while, but the 70D is an autofocus beast.

Ha! Good to know between Yongnuo and the 430EXII.

Do you get different results with it on the T4i? It's possible that I miss focus on more than a few shots only in lower light situations. Come to think of it, in good lighting I don't miss nearly as many.

Anyway, thanks for your advice. The 70D is a really intriguing option and checks a lot of boxes for me, I just have a feeling that I will get an itch for full frame, justified or not, before long.

spooky action wrote in post #17599132
Great shots and you handled the lighting well with your setup. I've been close to pulling the trigger on a 430EXII but just haven't been able to justify it yet.

For interior bounce flash, I would try to get as powerful a flash as you reasonably can. Often these days we have mixed lighting inside, like incandescent and CFL plus daylight coming in a window. These light sources might look OK to the eye, but will look different to the camera. CFL especially is a problem - it looks intensely yellow to the sensor. So depending on whether you have this situation or not, you might want to pump as much flash as possible into the scene, and use a high shutter speed to kill as much ambient light as you can.

Granted there are situations where you don't want to obliterate ambient light and just add a touch of flash, but for best versatility, you want a more powerful flash.

In my posted link, the flash had a 1/2 CTO to bring it closer to the ambient. IMO, gelling flash to match ambient is key.

spooky action wrote in post #17599087
I am aware of that (I was just pointing to one example where I feel, rightly or wrongly, that the T4i is limiting and a much more robust ISO/low light capability is desired). In other situations, that is certainly another draw of the 6D.

Flash - that's one thing I've stubbornly yet to adopt. That is probably something I should have stated in my initial post - I only use light that is otherwise available (not because I'm some purist, it's just how my photography has evolved thus far). Anyway, your suggestion is welcome and is something to think about.

I agree that 6D will give you the ISO headroom you seek, it is the reason I moved up from a 70D to full frame. There are just some situations where flash will not work or the aperture cannot be wide open and ISO bump is needed, I am also adjusting to needing to close down my aperture much more than on crop just to get enough things in focus when I need that, but because the quality of the ISO is nicer it balances out and is a better shot. Or for those times that my aperture is already wide open and I need more shutter speed - the ISO bump doesn't create unusable pictures and is more pleasing.

BTW - I started heavily using bounce flash indoor with my kids and it was much easier and nicer than only using available light. I still don't use flash all the time but more often than not I will put a flash in the hotshoe when shooting my kids indoors.

It sounds like I am going to have to look into getting a flash.

Thanks everyone for your input.

I'm curious why you use the Yongnuo and not the 430EXII, and which Yongnuo do you use?

Archibald wrote in post #17599058
I'm sure you're aware that FF gives thinner DOF. e.

If we compare apples and oranges (same FL on both formats -- what matter to the birders),

• 50mm on FF, f/4 at 10', FOV = 4'.7' x 7.08', and DOF = 2.44' deep
  
• 50mm on APS-C, f/4 at 10' , FOV = 2.95' x 4.43', and DOF = 1.51' deep
  

• 80mm on FF, f/4 at 10', 2.95' x 4.43', and DOF = 0.93' deep
  
• 50mm on APS-C, f/4 at 10' , 2.95' x 4.43', and DOF = 1.51' deep
  

spooky action wrote in post #17599087
I am aware of that (I was just pointing to one example where I feel, rightly or wrongly, that the T4i is limiting and a much more robust ISO/low light capability is desired). In other situations, that is certainly another draw of the 6D.

Flash - that's one thing I've stubbornly yet to adopt. That is probably something I should have stated in my initial post - I only use light that is otherwise available (not because I'm some purist, it's just how my photography has evolved thus far). Anyway, your suggestion is welcome and is something to think about.

When walls and ceiling are white/gray, etc, it is really a simple matter to use flash without a glaring flash look. Just rotate the speedlight head so that it goes over your shoulder and to the side. The light will be very diffuse, and you won't get that look of darkness in the distance and blown out highlights up close. I say tilt to one side to give a sense of depth with the light being off-center. If you want to go remote, you can precisely place flashes in strategic locations. Flash doesn't have to be a head-on glare assault.

I really wish I had this option when shooting birds/wildlife. Providing your own light in the field is hard to do without all the downsides of flash. If I could find a volunteer to hold a big white umbrella with a remote speedlight on it, pointing the handle at little birds in the shade, I could happily use flash, but using a Better Beamer mounted on top of a camera is a nuisance, as it is very fragile and goes out of alignment easily, and if the flash ratio is just a little too high, I get ugly glare. I haven't brought my Better Beamer or flash with me for birds in a year or more (another big reason is that Canon cameras do not allow auto-ISO with flash enabled).

spooky action wrote in post #17599132
Great shots and you handled the lighting well with your setup. I've been close to pulling the trigger on a 430EXII but just haven't been able to justify it yet.

On a different topic, have you had front focusing issues with your 18-35? At times I do and it kills me, because otherwise I love that lens. Maybe penny-wise and pound foolish, but I cannot bring myself to buy the dock for $60 when that shouldn't be an issue in the first place.

I own the 18-35mm. Micro-adjusting it via the dock is a LOT of tedious work but 100%, without a doubt, absolutely necessary! There are 4 values at each focal length. So at 18mm you will MA it for 4 distances. The same for 24mm, 28mm and 35mm. A total of 16 values you need to enter into the dock. If you have a bad copy and you don't want to deal with the headaches (believe me, until you know what you're really doing, this can be a total nightmare), I'd just send it off to have them do it. The only issue with that is, you have to send your body too. The way I see it though, there is no other lens in the world quite like this one. Once you get it setup and working with one body, it's a total gem!

Put in the effort and get it MA'd. Trust me. This lens is absolutely golden.

Naturally, I have gray walls in my house...so thanks for excellent tips and explanation!

Thanks for that. Maybe I will just send it in with the body. I do love the lens, but I have gotten to the point where I've listed it for sale to fund a new camera. Any idea what the turn around time is if I send it in?

Also, have you seen a noticeable jump improvement using it between your 7D and 7DII or event the xti (as opposed to simply just improvement from the better camera specs)?