Q: Will a TTL flash with a Flashbender still give accurate results

Hi,

Long term lurker and I think this is my first post here.

After some years of using a manual flash system, on camera, bouncing off ceilings and walls, I am tempted to try out something like the Yongnuo YN-565EX II TTL Flash combined with a Rogue FlashBender Small Positionable Reflector. This will be mounted either on a EOS600D or a EOS 6D using 24-70 or a 70-200.

When using my Yongnuo manual flash I do have to do an awful lot of chimping while wafting around taking photos (mostly wedding receptions/parties where it's too crowded for off camera), be nice if, with the camera set to manual, the flash took care of it's own power levels. Distance can vary a lot as I'm juggling to get the best image, while at the same time avoiding stepping on or being stepped on.

So, being a naturally suspicious kind of fellow, I wondered if these TTL flashes really can give accurate results when bouncing off walls/ceilings/pillars​/waiters, or when using the Flashbender.

Any opinions here would be gratefully received on this issue, or indeed the worth of the 565 or the flashbender small.

Best

Larry.

Heya,

I use all manual speedlites except for the 565EX II, which I have two of because they're so good at TTL and use them strictly for bounce flash fill, using TTL. Literally that's all I use them for and they're just excellent for it. It's my go to method to light up a moment when I'm at home or traveling and can't take a second shot or setup a studio type shoot, it's more for spontaneous stuff, or places you can't take a second shot or cannot setup anything controlled and just need to take the shot and get some fill light. Bounce from a TTL flash does it wonderfully.

The only time I've noticed it has problems with exposure is at extremely close range and direct flash. But with bounce, I've never had it over or poorly underexpose unless it was my fault to begin with. Just manage output to size of room with ISO and you're set. You can light up a gym room with one of these flashes with high ISO, you'd be surprised.

Flash benders are a little different, they work great, but at close range it can be a little off (over expose I find). But that's just my experience. I generally just bounce off ceilings and walls. I use my flash bender when I have no other option and I generally dial in some -EC to make sure it acts as fill mostly to avoid it over exposing when I'm close to subject with it and bouncing from the bender specifically.

Very best,

Thank you Mal, that was really helpful, I will probably order a 565 exII.

Can these run off an external battery back? The sort you can get on ebay that have 8 AA's in them.

The gym room analogy is an interesting one as the reason I look towards the Flashbender solution was an event I have in a venue where the ceilings are white (off cream I think), but they are about 6 to 8 meters high, so I was worried about the reach of a flash in that particular scenario. But you think that if I jump up the ISO I should be fine, which in itself should be no problem on the 6D (not so sure about the 600D!).

When you dial in negative EC, are you doing this on the camera or the flash? And is there a manual setting for the zoom on the 565 exII?

The other scenario I have is a venue where the ceiling is black (yeah I know!) but about 3 meters high. No real wall options either as it's very large open plan area. Venues huh? Anyway, thought the flashbender might be useful there?

LarryPlane wrote in post #17594280
Thank you Mal, that was really helpful, I will probably order a 565 exII.

Can these run off an external battery back? The sort you can get on ebay that have 8 AA's in them.

The gym room analogy is an interesting one as the reason I look towards the Flashbender solution was an event I have in a venue where the ceilings are white (off cream I think), but they are about 6 to 8 meters high, so I was worried about the reach of a flash in that particular scenario. But you think that if I jump up the ISO I should be fine, which in itself should be no problem on the 6D (not so sure about the 600D!).

When you dial in negative EC, are you doing this on the camera or the flash? And is there a manual setting for the zoom on the 565 exII?

The other scenario I have is a venue where the ceiling is black (yeah I know!) but about 3 meters high. No real wall options either as it's very large open plan area. Venues huh? Anyway, thought the flashbender might be useful there?

Heya,

Yeap, I use inexpensive JJC generic battery packs that take 8 batteries. Seems to last forever.

When dialing in the EC, I generally do it on the flash. Depends on the camera, but I just control via the flash.

Yes, there's a zoom setting, just tap the zoom and change to whatever spread you want.

The flashbender will be useful in all the situations where you want to bounce flash forwards. Otherwise, if you're bouncing off ceilings & walls, you don't need the bender. The bender is for when you don't really have a ceiling or wall to bounce from.

Very best,

Hi,

I got the YN568EXII and it works fine in TTL when bouncing or otherwise.

Flashbender on camera will soften the light a bit when you are few feet from the subject, I don't bother.

I bounce when I can or use my bare flash on camera as fill when I can´t. (Up the ISO to get some ambient in)

The other option is to get the flash off camera (TTL with YN-622 system works fine), then a bender is handy because you can get the flash right up to somebody

Off camera small flash bender right next to her face:

(on camera bender would not be anything remotely close to this)

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/fz7c​CE

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/fz84​SS

Thank you Nonnit. I don't suppose you know if the 568 works with the 6D? I've tramped around google but can't seem to find a mention of it.

Great images by the way.

It will be as accurate as any ettl flash setup will be. It will still be subject to the same issues that plague any reflective metering system.

Good to know. Thank you.

I am using it with canon 5DM2, don´t know aboud the 6D.

Okay, thanks mate.

The theory of concept of TTL would make it accurate in spite of the bouncing or the type of flash modifier in use. For example, taking the ETTL flash and aiming the head to the ceiling will cause the Canon to properly regulate the flash output to render a proper exposure.

However, MANY years ago I tried to use a Metz ETTL flash in a minisoftbox (Apollo Micro). In spite of metering preflash, it seemed to overexpose shots for me during tests with two different model Canon dSLR

I enlisted one of the POTN moderators to conduct tests with his two (different) Canon dSLRs and his two different model Canon ETTL flash units with an Apollo Micro which I shipped to him for the tests. He also got errors in exposure when using ETTL flash in a softbox, under ETTL body control.

We thought that elevating the flash head just slightly elevated from Zero degrees could allow the camera to ignore subject distance information from the lens, and thereby render accurate exposures just like ETTL bounce off ceiling. when a flash head straight ahead with softbox might be subject to error. Theory disproven!

In the end, we could not figure out which variable accounted for the errors in ETTL exposure:

• lens with/without distance reporting,
  
• Canon model dSLR,
  
• flash brand/model.
  

Used a Flashbender XL on Canon 600 EX-RT mounted on a Sirui Monopod/ Videopod P-204S at a Retirement Dinner at my Alma Matar Thursday evening. Shot ETTL controlled through the Canon ST-E3 Transmitter most of the night as the distance from flash to subject changed throughout the evening. Event was in an old Church across the street from my Fraternity house that the University acquired years back. Large windows with light coming in early in the evening. Back lighting was strong at times. Flash Exposure Compensation on the Transmitter was easily applied. Got real nice results.

Wilt wrote in post #17595392
The theory of concept of TTL would make it accurate in spite of the bouncing or the type of flash modifier in use. For example, taking the ETTL flash and aiming the head to the ceiling will cause the Canon to properly regulate the flash output to render a proper exposure.

However, MANY years ago I tried to use a Metz ETTL flash in a minisoftbox (Apollo Micro). In spite of metering preflash, it seemed to overexpose shots for me during tests with two different model Canon dSLR

I enlisted one of the POTN moderators to conduct tests with his two (different) Canon dSLRs and his two different model Canon ETTL flash units with an Apollo Micro which I shipped to him for the tests. He also got errors in exposure when using ETTL flash in a softbox, under ETTL body control.

We thought that elevating the flash head just slightly elevated from Zero degrees could allow the camera to ignore subject distance information from the lens, and thereby render accurate exposures just like ETTL bounce off ceiling. when a flash head straight ahead with softbox might be subject to error. Theory disproven!

In the end, we could not figure out which variable accounted for the errors in ETTL exposure:

• lens with/without distance reporting,
  
• Canon model dSLR,
  
• flash brand/model.
  

We finally both gave up with inconclusive findings, knowing only that use of ETTL flash in a softbox does not necessarily result in perfect exposures, unlike bounced ETTL!

Wilt, is it possible it was overexposing because you might have been short-lighting and the camera averaged the face? Or could the softbox have been interfering with the flash's sensor for optical communications? I know you said it metered the preflash, but did it get unimpeded signal? Perhaps trying again with RF triggers might prove more reliable.

bumpintheroad wrote in post #17596040
Wilt, is it possible it was overexposing because you might have been short-lighting and the camera averaged the face? Or could the softbox have been interfering with the flash's sensor for optical communications? I know you said it metered the preflash, but did it get unimpeded signal? Perhaps trying again with RF triggers might prove more reliable.

When PaceAce and it did the flash testing, it was not with anything to fancy as portraiture with broad vs. short lighting...but simply use of the flash thru a small softbox to illuminate an area , such as taking a wedding shot of B&G from relatively close (what I used to be able to do when shooting weddings with a medium format camera with TTL controlled Metz flash).

The flash unit's own sensor is only used for photosensor Auto mode (what Canon call 'External' mode), and is not used at all for ETTL flash control...the sensor in the CAMERA meters the preflash.

As for 'not getting an optical signal', the flash was mounted on the hotshoe for a direct connection, so that is not a factor.