Will Sony become Canon Users best friend? Re 5DSR £3,200 v A7R II £2,000

I just wondered do others think like me?
Ergo
I felt £3,200 was a very steep price for the 5DS R, in light of its restricted DR, limited low light performance and no 4K video. ( OK doing predominately studio work and outside portraits where I would use fill flash maybe not such a loss for me personally ).
When I discovered Canon emplyees could buy this for circa £500, and in comparison to the Nikon 810, it really cemented my views. I Always thought this was a £2,000 niche or speciality camera.

Now I see the Sony A7R II at £2,000 42 MPS ( probably an ideal size), with high ISO capability, improved AF, 4K video, presumably very good DR based on Sonys previous sensor technology, 5 way active image stabilisation. Due out in August!

It really makes me wonder ....... Will a lot of people wait to see what the 5D4 will offfer ref increased DR and better low light performance, and 4K Video???
Couple that restraint on the "must buy it now" fever with the timely Sony offering, and the intrisinc exceptionally low mfg cost of the 5DS R ..... It makes me want to wait for an inevitable price crash of the 5DS R??

My gut feeling is this camera wont fly out the door in bucket loads, and retailers will drop the price to £2,700 in a couple of months and then £2,500 within 3 months.
Add a new 42 MPS , 4K video Nikon 810 replacement at circa £2,400 and the 5D4 arrival. It would not surprise me if the 5DS R could find itself priced at £2,300 within 5 months.

Anybody else think I could be right.?
Well the logic is steering me to sit on the fence for a few months.

Interested in what you people are thinking.

It's only a matter of time before I ditch all my canon bodies.

As is, canon sat idle too long, and I got to taste the nectar known as the A7r, and now I can honestly say that Sony offers a product even more comprehensive than my ideal camera. My mind was pretty blown TBH, can't recall a camera body so complete.

I have always wanted IBIS, but in the past, there would always be some sort of qualifier, like smaller sensor or lesser sensor, ect. Silent shutter, 4k, largest viewfinder, eye focus servo, phase detect through adapted lenses, backlit sensor, 500k shutter rating, that's just the icing on the cake.

Charlie wrote in post #17596410
It's only a matter of time before I ditch all my canon bodies.

As is, canon sat idle too long, and I got to taste the nectar known as the A7r, and now I can honestly say that Sony offers a product even more comprehensive than my ideal camera. My mind was pretty blown TBH, can't recall a camera body so complete.

I have always wanted IBIS, but in the past, there would always be some sort of qualifier, like smaller sensor or lesser sensor, ect. Silent shutter, 4k, largest viewfinder, eye focus servo, phase detect through adapted lenses, backlit sensor, 500k shutter rating, that's just the icing on the cake.

Yeah I saw the 500,000 shutter count - hmmm even the 1DX doesnt hit that!

If early reports of fast AF with Canon lenses on the a7R II are true, then it should prove a very compelling option for many Canon users.

I had the 5DS R on pre-order, but the a7R II offers more for less. Easy choice for me.

After got through Tony Northup video ( http://www.sonyalpharu​mors.com …uction-from-tony-northup/) a7r II only has "5-10% more detail with GOOD lens..." For double cost of current a7r; I wouldn't call it my 'best friend'

Charlie wrote in post #17596410
It's only a matter of time before I ditch all my canon bodies.

As is, canon sat idle too long, and I got to taste the nectar known as the A7r, and now I can honestly say that Sony offers a product even more comprehensive than my ideal camera. My mind was pretty blown TBH, can't recall a camera body so complete.

I have always wanted IBIS, but in the past, there would always be some sort of qualifier, like smaller sensor or lesser sensor, ect. Silent shutter, 4k, largest viewfinder, eye focus servo, phase detect through adapted lenses, backlit sensor, 500k shutter rating, that's just the icing on the cake.

Interesting. In your experience, does it have AF that is better than Canon's DSLRs? mean, for shooting fast-moving objects where I am tracking in AI Servo, such as birds in flight or deer at a full run, will if track and follow-focus accurately? Also, with regards to the fast action stuff, does it have a high drive rate; something in the 10FPS range?

In the past, people always said that these Sonys were great for almost everything, but not good for rapid frame rates, optical viewfinders, and AF tracking of rapidly moving subjects. That's why I have not gotten one yet. But if this new model you mention has fixed these huge shortcomings, as you seem to be saying it has, then count me in!

I am very enthusiastic about the a7R II, it seemly superbly suited to my photography. If I were primarily a wildlife photographer, though, the camera wouldn't enter my consideration. For starters: only 5 fps...

I think Canon will have a hard time dropping the price if the 5ds r. Just my opinion but I think they will be too proud to do so and it will make it difficult for them to price their next camera.

Even if this isnt a perfect camera that sony has introduced I can still say that i have enjoyed watching what sony is doing. But on a non GAS assessment my canon 6d is still giving me some great pictures.

I really like the report about the A7Rii being able to AF Canon lenses quickly and I'm looking forward to when you guys all get a chance to see for yourself and report back.

With that said, I wish they had included this improvement(?) in the A7II as the A7RII is too much for me.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #17596475
Interesting. In your experience, does it have AF that is better than Canon's DSLRs? mean, for shooting fast-moving objects where I am tracking in AI Servo, such as birds in flight or deer at a full run, will if track and follow-focus accurately? Also, with regards to the fast action stuff, does it have a high drive rate; something in the 10FPS range?

In the past, people always said that these Sonys were great for almost everything, but not good for rapid frame rates, optical viewfinders, and AF tracking of rapidly moving subjects. That's why I have not gotten one yet. But if this new model you mention has fixed these huge shortcomings, as you seem to be saying it has, then count me in!

no, it's not better than canon's, and it doesnt have to be for me. I've been a member of this forum for a while now, and I remember being fed the idea of a 7D over 5D2 for my kiddy photos...... what a horrible mistake that was. Over time, I've come to realize that AF is overrated and oversold, especially now that sony gives excellent helping tools to manual focus.

On the issue of rapid moving subjects... I've looked through my photo album of 1000+ photos, fast action stuff rarely makes it in, because it is pretty rare to start with, and may not be interesting. I can take a hundred photos of my kids running around, however a photo of my kids trying to nurse back an injured bird will be infinitely more valuable.

I've found that my style is about capturing moments and interesting interactions, and that hardly ever needs a 1Dx style AF or burst rate. A flying bird on it's own doesnt interest me, however a mid air battle between birds would be very interesting, and I'm not equipped to capture said event, and I can live with it. For the most part, I'de say the VAST majority of bird shots on FM, are fairly static. I think the value of ultra fast AF and burst rate, certainly has value for those that dont want/dont know how to AF. It's of little value for me, even for my kids sports and performances. I dont hesitate to shoot pure manual focus for those scenarios. For captive animals, I also have no issues with MF.

My photography isnt based on wildlife, it's based on life around me.

I see.

In your earlier post, you said that the previous Sonys always came with some kind of qualifier, and you seemed to indicate that that was no longer the case with this new Sony that you were talking about.

So, unfortunately, I guess the same sad "qualifiers" are still in place for those who want to photograph fast action at a fast frame rate. I think that this might always be the case so long as adaptors need to be used between the camera body and the lens. Thank you for the clarification.

I am glad that the Sony works for your style of photography. Maybe in 10 or 15 years mirrorless cameras will actually work for mine.

I want to point out that the A7RII is claimed to be 40% faster than the original A7R, which is not exactly a speed demon. The point of this upgrade is to bring the R's focus speed in line with the other cameras, not surpass them.

For whatever it's worth, Canon still has a hold on the high-speed camera market, and you'll continue to see big white lenses at sporting events and hidden behind camo in nature. It'll be a while before Sony has anything that can compete with Canikons in AF speed and capture rate. Not that there are any FE lenses longer than 200mm anyway, and not that this is what the A7 platform was intended for in the first place.

As a studio camera, the 5DS R lost to time a long while ago since I bought a Pentax 645Z, and it loses to the A7RII now too in just about every aspect related to tripod use.

I dont see those issues as qualifiers for a few reasons. The AF on the sony's are quite different in terms of usability. Sony's tracking is built on a center point AF lock (with feedback) vs AF points for DSLR. Sony is giving us the best that they have, and I think it's quite good, and I prefer the overall AF system to that of the DSLR. So, there is no qualifier, it's a better type of AF that I prefer. The comparison is almost like mac vs PC. Sure mac's cant use all the applications on PC, but some folks dont care, and prefer that system.

EVF vs OVF may remain an issue for wildlife photogs, and no amount of time will change that. Simply preferences.

FPS...... only 5. I came from a time where 5fps was the normal sports cam, and even then, I loved that canon gave the option of slowing that down. Same with the 7D, which had 8, canon gave the option of slowing that down. I simply dont shoot in that manner, and havent in the past 10 years. I've tried it, and it just leads to culling too many photos. The FPS issue will probably be solved with a lower megapixel camera. There's a lot of data being moved with a high megapixel camera. So I am indifferent to the feature.

The main qualifiers I was afraid of was a camera being made strictly for studio, or strictly for portrait, or strictly for low light.

I find that with the listed specs, you can capture anything well. it wasnt a gimped product, like the 5Ds, which was downgraded to ISO 6400 native. I definitely didnt want sony to downgrade any feature, instead going from the A7r to A7rii, on paper at least, seems like one of the biggest leaps in all camera body upgrades, save the 5Dc to 5D2, and even then, the A7rii can be debated as the much larger hop. They came out with an across the board upgrade, which was way unexpected. After dealing with canon, and long product cycles, and small upgrades, yeah, I'm pretty darn excited. It's as if sony is the young and hungry lion, they're sure acting like it.

I am with you on this one Tom. It doesn't matter what whizzbang factors the sensor may have the new Sony A series (like the previous models) is simply useless for my uses, and it sounds like yours too!
If nothing else the EVF alone kills it. Pity because, in other ways, I quite like the A Series Sony cameras.

The 5DSR isn't exactly an ideal sports and wildlife camera either, so discussions about FPS and AF tracking are out of context in the comparison, IMO.

For everyone else, IF the a7rII + adapted lenses can track as well as a native lens, it will give the 5DSR a run for for the money for everything outside of sports and wildlife. With current a7 bodies, AF with native lenses is very capable for everything else, and a7rII brings some pretty significant advantages over the 5DSR.

-Back-lit sensor which should improve high ISO noise (5DSR tops out at ISO6400)
-In Body Image Stabilization
-Electronic First Curtain shutter via the viewfinder
-Native 4K video
-Ability to mount the best lenses from a variety of mounts whether the AF is as fast as claimed or not.