7D2 worth if from a 60D

60d can hold its own at 6400 but I'm pushing it and maxxing it out. I need a slighty highervISO with my f4 70-200. But with a f2.8, I can keep it at 6400 and raise the shutter speed to capture sports at low light without motion blur

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17619688
60D files at ISO 6400 clean up nicely, if I do everything right. I'd still rather field the 6D in that kind of lighting. The 6D throws excellent JPG files at 6400. I finally boxed up my 60D and put it in the closet. It doesn't get used anymore. Gotta shoot in lousy light? Full frame and fast primes, my friends.

The 6d had its own set of deficiencies from what I read. I understand its one of the best low light cameras with crippled autofocus. I guess its good if you're shooting slow or non moving objects in very low light. This specific complaint is all over the internet. The fast prime thing isn't always the case either, at least all the time. There are plenty of times I'd like to have a decent zoom. I'm not talking about you specifically, but many members on this site just regurgitate information theyve read in other threads. Not sure a ff or 6d is what this poster really needs. Being he shoots sports, I would tell him not to get a 6d, probably not a prime either.

Frodge wrote in post #17619744
The 6d had its own set of deficiencies from what I read. I understand its one of the best low light cameras with crippled autofocus. I guess its good if you're shooting slow or non moving objects in very low light. This specific complaint is all over the internet. The fast prime thing isn't always the case either, at least all the time. There are plenty of times I'd like to have a decent zoom. I'm not talking about you specifically, but many members on this site just regurgitate information theyve read in other threads. Not sure a ff or 6d is what this poster really needs. Being he shoots sports, I would tell him not to get a 6d, probably not a prime either.

OP is also complaining about noise when shooting at ISO 6400 and f/4 with a crop camera. Make no mistake, the 6D is quite capable (AF-wise) of shooting grade-school athletics.

Crop + 6400 + f/4 = too much noise for OP. An f/2.8 zoom gets one stop.
A full frame body will get another 1.5 to 2 stops of noise performance, or shutter speed. An f/2 (or faster) prime will get another stop, over and above the f/2.8 zoom - 2 stops above the f/4 zoom.

60D at 6400 and f/4 or 6D at 3200, f/2 and twice the shutter speed? I think that makes the the 6D with a prime a better setup. Of course, where the OP is shooting from makes a big difference. When I shot high-school athletics, I had court-side (rink, field, whatever) access. An 85 1.8 or 135L from the sidelines is a lot more useful than from the stands.

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17620136
OP is also complaining about noise when shooting at ISO 6400 and f/4 with a crop camera. Make no mistake, the 6D is quite capable (AF-wise) of shooting grade-school athletics.

Crop + 6400 + f/4 = too much noise for OP. An f/2.8 zoom gets one stop.
A full frame body will get another 1.5 to 2 stops of noise performance, or shutter speed. An f/2 (or faster) prime will get another stop, over and above the f/2.8 zoom - 2 stops above the f/4 zoom.

60D at 6400 and f/4 or 6D at 3200, f/2 and twice the shutter speed? I think that makes the the 6D with a prime a better setup. Of course, where the OP is shooting from makes a big difference. When I shot high-school athletics, I had court-side (rink, field, whatever) access. An 85 1.8 or 135L from the sidelines is a lot more useful than from the stands.

I would get a 7dII in his situation. That's if he has the upgrade bug.

Upgrade bug but not on which equipment. New lens would work or new body. But it seems a news lens will do much more then a new body.

I can't do FF. Not in my budget and not just for body but wide angle lenses.

Now I am thoroughly confused. You are considering the purchase of a 7D2, which costs $1500, you will likely have to buy new..
You rule out a 70-200 2.8 zoom as too expensive. Canon $1349 new, ~$900 used. Tamron 70-200 VC, $1000 used.
You can't do full frame because it is not in your budget. New 6D is $1349. Used $900-$1000.

The 7D2 is the most expensive option on the table. The other, less expensive, items are not in your budget? Whaa...??

A 7D2 will net you less than one stop of ISO performance/shutter speed. An f/2.8 lens gets you one solid stop. A 6D gets you nearly two stops. From where I sit, the 7D2 gets you the least of what you want, and costs the most money. I am missing something here.

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17620570
Now I am thoroughly confused. You are considering the purchase of a 7D2, which costs $1500, you will likely have to buy new..
You rule out a 70-200 2.8 zoom as too expensive. Canon $1349 new, ~$900 used. Tamron 70-200 VC, $1000 used.
You can't do full frame because it is not in your budget. New 6D is $1349. Used $900-$1000.

The 7D2 is the most expensive option on the table. The other, less expensive, items are not in your budget? Whaa...??

A 7D2 will net you less than one stop of ISO performance/shutter speed. An f/2.8 lens gets you one solid stop. A 6D gets you nearly two stops. From where I sit, the 7D2 gets you the least of what you want, and costs the most money. I am missing something here.

A 6d is probably the worst suggestion for what he's shooting. He would be better off with a 5diii. Also, if he goes ff, lenses become another expensr on top of the body. I personally would stick with apsc in your circumstance. The 6D is a budget ff. Good in low light but hampered autofocus from everything I've ever read, and I read lots on the subject. I also understand that the 6d has what many would consider useless outer focus points, no? I would personally upgrade the lens.

If I go towards a 6D it would cost me more. I don't have anything wider then 50mm which leaves me with not a lot of options except for the long end. Like I mentioned before, I am happy with crop. No need to upgrade to FF just for ISO advantage where I can pick up a fast lens and be happy with that.

The 70-200f2.8II is out of my budget new but within my budget from the canon Refurb. The Tamron is around that price.

RHChan84 wrote in post #17620720
If I go towards a 6D it would cost me more. I don't have anything wider then 50mm which leaves me with not a lot of options except for the long end. Like I mentioned before, I am happy with crop. No need to upgrade to FF just for ISO advantage where I can pick up a fast lens and be happy with that.

The 70-200f2.8II is out of my budget new but within my budget from the canon Refurb. The Tamron is around that price.

I know what you mean. I have counted the actual cost of upgrading to a full frame camera.... with the lenses I would need to duplicate the field of view I'm getting from my 7D2.... the cost was staggering, at least to me and my budget. I do tend to shoot longer than wider but replacing my 15-85 would mean a 24-70ll. Those aren't cheap. Add to that the longer lens I would need. I'm quite content with my lowly crop camera.

That's true. I would need to pick up a 100-400 to compensate for the 1.6x or pick up an extender.

Frodge wrote in post #17620630
A 6d is probably the worst suggestion for what he's shooting. He would be better off with a 5diii. Also, if he goes ff, lenses become another expensr on top of the body. I personally would stick with apsc in your circumstance. The 6D is a budget ff. Good in low light but hampered autofocus from everything I've ever read, and I read lots on the subject. I also understand that the 6d has what many would consider useless outer focus points, no? I would personally upgrade the lens.

Well, of course. It doesn't matter what you are taking photos of, the 5D3 is a better camera than a 6D. We also agree that if you are shooting a 6D where you are dialing in ISO 6400, the peripheral points are not much help. I know. I own one, I've tried. The point here is that the OP is getting the job done, for the most part, with 60D. That means a 6D will do the job. If he needed a 7D2, the 60D would be failing miserably. If the 6D can do the job, and it can according to the OP, it will do it better than the 60D. That is with regard to shutter speed, ISO and noise. It still leaves the OP focal length challenged. I concede that the 6D is only an option. It is not the best option.

RHChan84 wrote in post #17620720
If I go towards a 6D it would cost me more. I don't have anything wider then 50mm which leaves me with not a lot of options except for the long end. Like I mentioned before, I am happy with crop. No need to upgrade to FF just for ISO advantage where I can pick up a fast lens and be happy with that.

The 70-200f2.8II is out of my budget new but within my budget from the canon Refurb. The Tamron is around that price.

The 70-200 II is more than out of your budget. It is overkill for shooting athletics where you are keeping the shutter speed faster than 1/500. The IS does nothing (well, it does stabilize the VF) for you images at those speeds. You can get a non-IS EF 70-200 for around $900, or a Tammy VC for just a bit more.

Last year I shot high school football with a 7D and a Canon 70-200 2.8L IS. When the sun went down, I was doing good to have a shutter speed of 1/500 with an ISO of 6400 at most fields that we went to. The lighting is just not that great at the HS fields where I live.

I have just moved from the original 7D to the Mark II. I have only had the mark II for a couple of weeks, but I have noticed a significant difference in the quality of the file that the 7D Mark II produces. IMO the Mark II is at least a stop better than the original. In addition to that, the noise due to high ISO in the Mark II is much easier to clean up in post. Overall, I am much happier with the image quality of the Mark II

I could have went full frame with the 5D3, but as a hobbyist, I did not want to have to put the money into the big glass that would have been required to make up the 1.6 crop factor. I like to shoot a little of everything including sports, wildlife, landscape. With high school football, I also did not want to give up the 8 fps that the 7D was giving me. The 5D3 and the 6D image quality would be better for sports, but they would not be able to catch several frames that the 7D mark II will get when the star receiver is catching a great pass. Just my opinion, I hope I did the right thing getting the 7D Mark II.

The 70-200 new is out of my budget but a Refurb is within my budget. Well only slightly over by $100 ish which for that price, I can deal with and not lose sleep over it. But that is very rare to find it in stock.

Would I love a 5d3, heck yes buy way over my budget. FF is way out of the question. 6d and 24-105stm is close to $2k and that's way over.

I'm with 3jc, I'm a hobbist, no way can I drop that much money in gear unless I had a disposable income and went back to living with my parents.

But to be back on topic. I know the sensor technology has improved but not sure if it improved enough to justify the 7d2 pretty much for ISO performance. Like I mentioned before, FPS and AF hasnt been my issue but more like indoor hockey, night football or cheerleader competition is when it struggles. 1/500, f4, ISO 6400 is still under exposing depending on the situation. But f3.2 or even f2.8 would help out a lot. Just wasn't sure and I wanted to see what others have said going from a digic 4 to digic 6 on a 1.6 sensor. Of course I would love a 5d3 and 70-200f2.8 and 100-400 but I need a place to sleep and eat.

Yes the extra fps and AF would help but its not like I'm missing a lot of shots due to those features. The 60D is more then capable in that's aspect. But these are things that are nice to have but its not limiting me from doing what I do.

Hope that makes sense of what I am looking for. I know FF will give better ISO but unless someone wants to help fund those for me, I'm not even thinking about those bodies.

So what do you want?

I was thinking the 7d2 but it seems the 70-200 is a better investment and keep my 60d. Faster glass seems to be the recommended thing to do instead of a new body which is only slightly better ISO bump.