5DSR (IS vs Non IS lenses), (85L vs 100L vs 135 L ), handheld shutter speeds

Thought I would do a test today using some of Canon's goto Portrait lens and try to determine exactly what SS would be required to achieve a very high probability of achieving a 'tack sharp' image using the 5DSR handheld.

For most people the 70-200 IS is one of those lens but today I decided to use just the primes, in the standard portrait range. It is probably a fairly good assumption that the 100L with IS is a good proxy for what the 70-200II IS would require.

The setup is I went out to my backyard and brought an envelope with small type face writing on the back and placed it next to a spray paint bottle, also with writing, and then stopped back 15 feet and snapped off 2 pictures at each of the SS I wanted to test.

The SS tested were: 1/60, 1/80, 1/125, 1/200, 1/250, 1/320, 1/400, 1/500, 1/1000

I used Aperture F4 - each of these lens (85L, 100L, 135L) is tack tack sharp in the center at F4.

The test was done quickly with near identical lighting but the camera was placed on Auto ISO so it determined the exposure. Center point focus was used. Below I have shown one of the pre-cropped pictures to give you and idea of the setup and then I did massive 2:1 LR crops to show just the writing on the labels. Because of framing differences between the focal lengths of 85,100,135 there are different number of pixels in each crop but what I'm really trying to determine was what is the minimum SS so there is no question you can get tack sharp.

Being a math guy, I know that 2 handheld shots is no where near enough to give you a high degree of confidence, especially with non IS lenses (with IS lens so far I have found that if one is good nearly all will be good with a very high certainty) but that is just not true with non IS lenses.

The punch line is that with IS lens I think you can comfortably use 1/ 2/3rds FL - so 60th / 80th is good for the 100L (and very likely the 70-200 even at 200mm). I have lots of other experience with the 100-400L II IS and 1/60th is perfectly good at 400mm as well (with a very high hit rate).

The other thing that I saw looking at the various snaps with the 85 & 135L is that just because you might get one of them almost tack sharp at 1/80th you can then get 2 not nearly tack sharp pictures at 1/200th - so this is the frustration with these lenses handheld and taking a single shot and thinking you have it when you actually don't.

The final thing I will say is that when I looked very closely at the images, there is sharp and there is tack sharp when you are pixel peeping and for most images at reasonable distances there will be no telling that difference so using 1/3X FL you can be pretty certain that it is going to look sharp (90% of the time) but it you start to zoom in that is when you really see that it isn't tack sharp and 1/4x or 1/5x or higher is really need for non IS lenses (handheld) to really nail it with high consistency.

I'm left wondering how a high pixel density stabilized body such as the upcoming A7RII would do with IBIS. Without the lens being stabilized I don't think you will get the typical 3 stops of stabilization but could it get 2 stops?


The setup

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regarding handheld shooting with 5dsr below was on Canons web site

Use faster minimum shutter speeds

The old “1/lens focal length” rule of thumb is out the window. Where possible, particularly in a hand-held situation, use speeds of at least a full stop or two faster than whatever you considered your previous minimum “safe” speeds to be. This applies to both with and without Image Stabilization.


So in other words for non IS lens Canon are now saying use twice the lens length ie 100mm prime (non is) = new minimum speed of 1/250th sec or faster. The best way to get around suffering higher iso's as a result of this is to buy IS Mk2 lens where possible . Even if this means losing 1 stop also off the IS lens because of the 50mp..... This is what I had to do for both my 24-70 f2.8 and my 100-400 Mk1. Replaced the 24-70 with a 16-35 ISf4 and the 100-400mk1 with newer Mk2 IS. Obviously the wiwder you go the easier it is to handhold at lower speeds . I think eventually we will see every new iteration of Canon lens having IS as std. Even on the ultra wide end lens ( 24mm or less).

clipper

Another reason why the 5DS series is a specialized camera. The digital picture review also mentions the need to adjust shutter speed due to higher density. While I could see why a higher MP would amplify features at 1:1 aspect, I'm kind of surprised there can be that much difference. I went straight from a 5Dc to 5D3, and didn't see much difference in sharpness (in fact, because of the better AF, I found I didn't have to worry as much with shutter speed for camera shake). For all my cameras, I've tried to stick to the shutter speed: at least FL rule...but it's not a rule set in stone. If I utilize the recommended techniques for steadying yourself (elbows in, shoot after you breath out, etc) I find I can go below the FL (especially with a big DSLR with grip). Apparently, though, you should plan for a faster shutter speed with the 5DS: YMMV as to what that shutter speed can be.

The lenses I am using on the 5dsr are all IS lenses - I learned this day 2 with the camera when I was playing with my 35F2 and 50L - I could get tack sharp images over and over with the 35F2 IS at 1/40 - a lot slower as well but shooting people below 1/40 is risky: with the 50L my batting average at 1/200 was below 50% - which is completely unacceptable.

So for me:
- 35F2 IS
- 24-105 F4 IS at 55mm and below (lens is not sharp above this)
- 70-200 II F2.8 and F4
- 100L
- 100-400II (has to be Canon''s sharpest lens and my favorite lens)

I'm going to run a test soon with an A7RII using the 50, 85 and 135 L to see how Sony's IBIS works.

I'm seriously thinking of selling the 85L & 135L because something tells me eventually we are going to get IS versions of these lenses.

Of course to some degree YMMV, (some people out there are rock solid like tripods shooting hand held, I am NOT one of them!) but yes, this all seems to be backing up what the assumptions would be.

The detail in those crops is incredible.


Another point re: IS, a lot of the measurements for the new V2 100-400mm seem to put it's optical characteristics not nearly as far superior to the V1 as we are seeing in final results. It is better, to be sure, but just relying on measurements we should not be getting the "WOW" that we get from this new MkII lens based solely on the optical improvement. To make matters more complex, my own first impressions of the V2 put it optically WAY ahead of the MkI, and yet, when I go back and look at old images from the MkI I do have some images that really are indistinguishable from the MkII. ie: when I got everything right, it can produce!

What has been a more significant change is the IS, AF accuracy and the much higher keeper rate, and thus the impression of overall optical sharpness has indeed skyrocketed, far beyond what the optical measurements would explain. It is less because of optics, and more because of FAR superior IS tech. If we were to compare in USE, the MkI vs MkII 100-400mm with IS turned off, and manual focus, the playing field becomes more even. (don't get me wrong, the mkII is still a good deal better optically, but it's AF and IS are what really pushes it ahead)

Anyway, this is only vaguely on topic here, but just another argument to back up the value of IS on the modern DLSR.

yep dead right about the IS difference between the Mk1 and Mk2.....I recon Im getting 2 - 3 stops better handheld on Mk2 vs my older Mk1 IS...And any bit of extra handheld value I can get in order to cope with this unforgiving 50 megapixel monster is worth its weight in gold I recon....

Also agree the optics are better but not by a huge margin to the older Mk1 .....Its really all in the IS IMO

Clipper