Tips on upgrading from an umbrella; Yungnuo compatability Q

I want to jump to a Rovelight but cannot quite justify the expense. So I'm going to build on what I have:

Yn622C-TX and a couple YN622 triggers, one 550EX and one 580 I.

I cannot get the YN622C-TX to communicate with my older flashes, so I am considering getting a YN568 EX2 with a trigger.

If I pick a YN568 EX2 with a trigger, and gang all three flashes onto a triple bracket, and optically slave my 550 and 580 to it, will the YN568 EX2 properly communicate TTL or manual settings? Could I adjust settings on my transceiver and expect those setting to then adjust on my older flashes?

Any tips on softboxes that would work nicely with a triple bracket would be appreciated.

Hi, If I understand you correctly ..

" .. and optically slave my 550 and 580 to it, will the YN568 EX2 properly communicate TTL or manual settings? .. "

No. (And I think that's irrespective of whether you mean simple optical slaving or Canon Wireless optical.) AFAIK you would be better off having one Rx for each Speedlite - that should give you off-cam ganged ETTL. For M flash with the older Speedlites you might have to set them in M flash by walking over & using their own buttons & controls.

I use ganged Speedlites - my setup is fractionally more user friendly that yours - and I'm still just a whisker away from concluding that a Jinbei/Rovelight HD 600 will be my next move. I'm longing for a simpler more direct setup.

mpstan wrote in post #17660145
I want to jump to a Rovelight but cannot quite justify the expense. So I'm going to build on what I have:

Yn622C-TX and a couple YN622 triggers, one 550EX and one 580 I.

I cannot get the YN622C-TX to communicate with my older flashes, so I am considering getting a YN568 EX2 with a trigger.

If I pick a YN568 EX2 with a trigger, and gang all three flashes onto a triple bracket, and optically slave my 550 and 580 to it, will the YN568 EX2 properly communicate TTL or manual settings? Could I adjust settings on my transceiver and expect those setting to then adjust on my older flashes?

Any tips on softboxes that would work nicely with a triple bracket would be appreciated.

Heya,

Take the cost of the 568EXII, trigger, bracket for three speedlites, and all the batteries, plus whatever it takes to get your other older flashes to talk properly with the system you have and see what that adds up to. I'm thinking that $200 more, and you can get your Rovelight and have a simple setup with a powerful single strobe, no wires, already has a battery, and you already have the triggers and you can just pick a modifier and be good to go.

I may be wrong, but just to point out, I think when you go from 1 speedlite to 3 speedlites, the power output is 1.5 stops higher than one speedlite. Someone correct me if that's incorrect. So while it is a little more powerful, if you look at cost for the increase in stops of output (this is important if you consider the modifier you use will cut down on output too), you may find it's not actually worth it for your needs. So again, maybe this is where you can start to justify moving to a strobe for the cost you're willing to go.

But, if you do want to stick with speedlites, maybe consider some 560 III's. They're inexpensive and good. You can use a single TX controller (560TX) and control their power outputs, and you don't have to buy triggers for them as they have built in wifi receivers already. You can get three 560III's for $200 basically, and a single $45 controller (560TX). Portable, the only batteries are those in the flashes and one controller (instead of also needing 3 triggers each with batteries, etc).

I guess I bring that up because I'm curious about the TTL comment, as I don't think TTL in a softbox in general is a good idea. You'll blow through batteries fast, and it will be inconsistent likely in terms of output (as it will be based on a meter). I would just run flashes in manual regardless of which flashes you use.

Alternatively, you could look at some Alien Bee's AB800's if you want to spend $250 or so, and have a good strobe, but it's wired and not portable. The alternative would be a Godox AD360 that is portable with the features you'd want for $400. Or, for $480 or so, the Rovelight which does it all.

I ended up going from multi-speedlites to the Rovelight for a portable 600ws strobe, and while it was more expensive than a bunch of speedlites, it's more powerful and ultimately way more simple to use and less accessories to bother with, so it burned my wallet a little for a minute, but it only hurt once, and now I have the ability to do HSS and over power the sun, something my speedlites couldn't do. And portable to boot with no wires.

Here's an example to show size:

Speedlite + battery pack (to shoot full power 1/1 in sunlight)

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/u9CE​EN

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/vFSM​Ua

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/vDcf​x7

mpstan wrote in post #17660145
Yn622C-TX and a couple YN622 triggers, one 550EX and one 580 I.

I cannot get the YN622C-TX to communicate with my older flashes

You should be able to use your two flashes in Manual output mode.

1. Download TOYUG using the link in my signature.

2. Set up EX compatability mode (C.Fn 05) as per page 45.

3. Let us know how it works for you.

Thank you I'll try what you suggested. If the Rovelight Bowens mount is truly now listed at $599 it will definitely be above my reach. Snooze= lose.

mpstan wrote in post #17660905
Thank you I'll try what you suggested. If the Rovelight Bowens mount is truly now listed at $599 it will definitely be above my reach. Snooze= lose.

Give it time.

No one will buy it at $600 and they'll periodically drop it to $480 and it will sell out.

Very best,

CliveyBoy wrote in post #17660551
You should be able to use your two flashes in Manual output mode.

1. Download TOYUG using the link in my signature.

2. Set up EX compatability mode (C.Fn 05) as per page 45.

3. Let us know how it works for you.

Clivey, Did as you instructed; Went to Eco On, what I neglected to do however was turn flash switch (off, master, slave) to off. right off the bat the 580 acted differently when I adjusted settings from the TX; the 550 did not however. Then, when I went back to the 580, it was acting strangely again. Here is what I mean through test images:

1. No flash, 1/60, f4, ISO 2000 (one stop underexposed by my meter):

IMAGE LINK: https://pstanfield.smu​gmug.com …B/0/S/%20--S.jpg&lb=1&s=A

IMAGE LINK: https://pstanfield.smu​gmug.com …/0/S/%20-2-S.jpg&lb=1&s=A

IMAGE LINK: https://pstanfield.smu​gmug.com …/0/S/%20-3-S.jpg&lb=1&s=A

IMAGE LINK: https://pstanfield.smu​gmug.com …/0/S/%20-4-S.jpg&lb=1&s=A

IMAGE LINK: https://pstanfield.smu​gmug.com …/0/S/%20-5-S.jpg&lb=1&s=A

For learning and testing, I recommend ambient settings 2 stops under "normal". Remember that flash has a floor and a ceiling - ambient already at normal, and flash unable to deliver enough power. Space is needed to assess the outcomes. Also, changing just one parameter at a time helps to analyse the results.

No. 3 pic suggests that changes had not been promoted through the system by using half-shutter then release before the actual shot. It should have come out like No. 5

No.4 is as expected at the settings you used. But, remote control was not in effect - the flash was.

No. 5 is as expected. And remote control was not in effect - the flash was.

Earlier Speedlites had an electronic path for E-TTL commands, but not for Manual commands through the foot. YN fake Manual by using the E-TTL command set to implement pseudo-Manual settings with the old flashes. But the flash MUST be in E-TTL to know what to do with them.

Put the Speedlite into E-TTL mode, and do not touch it again; let the C-TX do its job.

I posted the last two pictures to demonstrate what the flash is capable of at minimum and full power. Pictures 2 and 3 should have produced the same result. I did as you suggested, testing against an object 2 stops underexposed and 1/1 power has an identical histogram to 1/128. I metered them properly. I give up. Thank you for trying to help but I'm done trying to make these flashes work.

My options now would be: purchase a 560TX, disgard my 622C-TX, and pick up a YN-560 IV, or keep my C-TX and 622Cs, and buy a 568 EX2', correct? Pros and cons? I don't mind running my older two flashes manually for background or rim lighting. Will the newer 560TX trigger my old 622C's properly? Maybe I'm better sticking to the 622 family..... and the 568EX2.....

I haven't given up on a strobe but Rovelight's price jump to $599 is making that tougher....

Then to find a softbox to produce the softer light I'm looking for.... I'm going to post a separate thread asking about Westcott's Rapid Box Duo 32" Octa, but if anyone here has an opinion on this please speak up. Seems pricey at $269

Thank you again

mpstan wrote in post #17662599
Pictures 2 and 3 should have produced the same result

Not so. If you had set up ECO as per TOYUG, you would have seen exposures more like 4 and 5.

2 and 3 look more like E-TTL exposures as determined by the camera, and NOT exposures determined by the C-TX's ECO mode.

As you say, there ate several options, even within just the 622C family. When (finally) released, I expect to end up with
1x 622X-TX (current)
2x 685EX (new)
2x 622C MkII (new)
2x 622c (current)
1x 580EXII (current)
1x 568EX (current)
2x 550EX (current)

That seems simple, versatile and cost effective.

PS I expect a new firmware version to appear on the web page for the C-TX, to match the new gear.

Clivey, I said I was finished with these flashes but I've watched you on the boards, and I knew you knew your stuff....... so I rechecked everything, and reran my tests, and both flashes appear to respond to the 622's just fine. I have no idea what I was doing wrong but I don't care. Thank you so much!

Perry

My pleasure. Without that erratic/faulty behaviour, your decisions should be easier.

MalVeauX wrote in post #17660295
Heya,

Take the cost of the 568EXII, trigger, bracket for three speedlites, and all the batteries, plus whatever it takes to get your other older flashes to talk properly with the system you have and see what that adds up to. I'm thinking that $200 more, and you can get your Rovelight and have a simple setup with a powerful single strobe, no wires, already has a battery, and you already have the triggers and you can just pick a modifier and be good to go.

Of course there is one big thing that the single higher powered flash unit can't do that you can do when you gang a handful of smaller flashes together: Breaking those flashes apart and putting them elsewhere.

Building up your flash collection in a way that gives you a number of small flashes along with some larger units gives you more flexibility and options. The small flashes can be placed in tighter spaces and hidden within the photo in ways that larger units can't, and they can be set to lower power levels for times when you need 'just a touch' more light in some shadows where a full 500+ w/s flash is going to struggle to not over power things even on the lowest setting.

I find that three YN-560 sized flashes seems to be barely enough to pair up along side my Rovelight with a 7' reflector, but the setup is a fraction of the cost of a second RL600 (Works on a very light/cheap light stand) and l would like to have a set of flashes that can be split and placed in multiple locations before having a single unit that is stuck being used in one spot at a time.

However, other's needs and desires will no doubt differ on this issue.

Luckless wrote in post #17663282
Of course there is one big thing that the single higher powered flash unit can't do that you can do when you gang a handful of smaller flashes together: Breaking those flashes apart and putting them elsewhere.

Building up your flash collection in a way that gives you a number of small flashes along with some larger units gives you more flexibility and options. The small flashes can be placed in tighter spaces and hidden within the photo in ways that larger units can't, and they can be set to lower power levels for times when you need 'just a touch' more light in some shadows where a full 500+ w/s flash is going to struggle to not over power things even on the lowest setting.

I find that three YN-560 sized flashes seems to be barely enough to pair up along side my Rovelight with a 7' reflector, but the setup is a fraction of the cost of a second RL600 (Works on a very light/cheap light stand) and l would like to have a set of flashes that can be split and placed in multiple locations before having a single unit that is stuck being used in one spot at a time.

However, other's needs and desires will no doubt differ on this issue.

Yeap, depends on needs.

I too use a Rovelight & several speedlites (560III's, 565EXII's). I like the size and utility of a speedlite for many things and for being able to quickly set up several lights. Especially in doors where I use them the most.

My comment was specific to the OP saying he wants a Rovelight, but the cost was a deterrent. The reality is, at $480, the Rovelight barely costs more than two expensive speedlites which was the point. As it is, the OP is saying he was going to get another speedlite, and gang three speedliets into a triple bracket, not spread around a room separately, to make a single more powerful source--hence he wanted the Rovelight to begin with. But ultimately the cost of another speedlite, more triggers for all of them, a bracket, etc, is getting very close to the cost of just one Rovelight.

Very best,

CliveyBoy wrote in post #17663047
My pleasure. Without that erratic/faulty behaviour, your decisions should be easier.

Yes, a little easier. But I think if the Rovelight was still at $479 I might have plowed into it.

I like the idea of finding a speedring adapter to accept two speedlites. I see one adapter here: http://mpex.com …sh-bracket-speedring.html

I understand that a third speedlite doesn't add as much light as a second one adds, but seems to me if I go with two way I might be able expand my softbox selections. I can't tell from the add which kind of boxes this ring adapts to but I'll find out. I could pick up a Yongnuo 568 EX2, pair it with my 580 into a nice softbox, and use my 550EX for rim or background.

Thanks again all