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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Glamour & Nude Talk 
Thread started 19 Aug 2015 (Wednesday) 06:04
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Risquéness and 16 Year Old Models?

 
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AZGeorge
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Aug 22, 2015 20:03 |  #16

TooManyHobbies wrote in post #17674715 (external link)
Any thoughts as to where to draw the line?

For me the line is age eighteen and that only if she does not seem immature for her age. Before age eighteen, no matter what her appearance or attitude, I consider her a child who needs the protection of ethical adults.


George
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TooManyHobbies
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Aug 24, 2015 22:49 as a reply to  @ AZGeorge's post |  #17

So you have never and would never take a photograph of someone under 18?

Part of the problem here is that I have been on this site for so long that this forum topic use to be the only one for fashion but now there is a fashion topic so I should have posted this question there to avoid all the incorrect assumptions of people who didn't read the posts.


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Aug 24, 2015 23:04 as a reply to  @ TooManyHobbies's post |  #18

I have zero issues photographing people under 18 I do so under a business name that has absolutely nothing that even resembles risqué. If I have to ask the question to myself "is this too sexy" then the answer is yes and the shoot gets toned down.

I feel like the question may have gotten asked in a way that drew answers other then what you were seeking.




  
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AZGeorge
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Aug 25, 2015 16:45 |  #19

TooManyHobbies wrote in post #17674715 (external link)
I have been fairly conservative in my shooting to date and wonder what the appropriate line is in terms of clothing type, poses, expression, etc. of her sexyness. She exudes it and seems to be best fitted for swimsuit and Victoria Secrets type modeling in her future.

Any thoughts as to where to draw the line?

TooManyHobbies wrote in post #17681864 (external link)
So you have never and would never take a photograph of someone under 18?

TooManyHobbies wrote in post #17681864 (external link)
.

Read your thread starter to which I replied. You did not ask about photographs of children in general but about a particular context. For me, the line for shots that exude sexuality begins at age 18 and may even fade further out depending on the maturity of the model.


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longbeachgary
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Aug 25, 2015 17:02 |  #20

Dude, it's your line and no one else can draw it for you. If they ask you to do something that you don't want to do JUST SAY NO. It's not that hard.


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LondonRob
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Sep 11, 2015 11:59 |  #21

Forgive me for stating what you have probably already considered but here in the UK we have a clear law regarding the likely nature of the image your initial post referred to. I'm guessing the US or your state does too.
That would be my first port of call. Whatever it says, obey it.
Then there's my individual ethics that may trump the law. In my case it does. I wouldn't shoot a 16 year old in a sexy way whatsoever.

Also over here we have the potential for falling foul of the British law even if we follow it to the letter. I'll explain.

Essentially we have an amalgamation of laws centered around the production of an obscene image. Firstly they describe in broad terms what an obscene image is.
This includes the image suggesting the subject is sexually active or sexually available. Our law is broken and with serious charges and consequences if the subject APPEARS to be under 18.
Doesn't matter if they're 20, If someone thinks they are 17 and 364 days and posing in a sexual way I run the risk of being arrested.

Therefore I can potentially on paper be within the law but still break it. Ergo I never shoot anything you would remotely describe as sexy with anyone under 21 and ideally over 25.

So to quote your original question "expression of her sexyness" I would only produce an image that concerned itself with that idea of someone over 21. Giving me a 3 year buffer of supposed safety from someone appearing under 18.

Now, obviously the UK and the US has different laws and different culture, if I was to shoot a 16 year old and capture her or him expressing their sexiness I would fully expect to be explaining myself in front of a Judge. Irrespective of my morals and ethics (which wold stop me doing anything like it anyway) why on earth would I want to risk ruining my life ? And likely others ?

I have been asked twice in the UK to do sub 18 glamour work and I just cut the call dead.

I wouldn't go within 50 miles of it.




  
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TooManyHobbies
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Sep 11, 2015 19:00 as a reply to  @ LondonRob's post |  #22

My first post said the law was further than I wanted to go.


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Sep 12, 2015 11:29 |  #23

I would have few concerns shooting a model under 18 in a swimsuit that was signed to a major agency in NYC, Miami, or LA. This happens everyday in large fashion markets. In North Carolina, the risk to my business and reputation shooting minor children is completely different and not something I would risk no matter what the parents wanted.

It's not a matter of law, but of reputation. One visit by the police or social media backlash can ruin your business.


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vfotog
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Sep 12, 2015 16:16 |  #24

TooManyHobbies wrote in post #17681864 (external link)
So you have never and would never take a photograph of someone under 18?

Part of the problem here is that I have been on this site for so long that this forum topic use to be the only one for fashion but now there is a fashion topic so I should have posted this question there to avoid all the incorrect assumptions of people who didn't read the posts.


the biggest part of the problem is that your original post was really creepy. You talk about a 16 year old girl "expressing her sexuality", a future as a "Victoria's Secret" model, "exudes" sexuality and wondering where to draw the line... honestly, it seems you are projecting your own opinions/attraction on to this girl. You shouldn't even be thinking of this model this way. Later you talk about ads with underage girls wearing underwear in suggestive poses. Name one mainstream brand that does that. Once everyone disagreed with you, you tried to soften your position up. You have no business shooting underage models if you don't know the law. As for the parents wanting or encouraging you to shoot their underage daughter in a sexual manner, yeh right. If that were actually true, for all you know, the child could be a victim of incest... the bottom line is that you follow the law, no matter what anyone else says. If you really have teenage daughters, would you be ok with some middle-aged man shooting them in a sexual manner? I sure hope not.




  
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TooManyHobbies
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Sep 12, 2015 22:06 as a reply to  @ vfotog's post |  #25

I re-read my first post and I could have written it better. It was a ittle creepy and didn't really express what I meant. I have edited it.

As for the sexuality of adedolescents, it exists and is a journey that all must take. There is no magic switch that just goes from one state to the other. Nothing creepy about that just life.

As for "follow the law" advice, I have already stated the law is creepier than I am willing to portray, hence the whole point I started this thread.

As for disparaging me, I am fine with that. I opened myself up for it with this thread of conversations and my inability to truly convey my meaning at the outset.

BUT THERE IS NO REASON TO SINK TO THE LEVEL OF CALLING THE GIRL A PRODUCT OF INCEST OR SUGGESTING HER PARENTS WOULD DO SUCH A THING.


~ Jeff

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TooManyHobbies
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Post edited over 5 years ago by TooManyHobbies.
     
Sep 12, 2015 22:10 |  #26

I want to thank those who did provide useful and specific advice. I have found my answers here and with many conversations with others.

I no longer need any more help on the topic, but if anyone feels the need to supply additional thoughts on the matter please do so professionally and with the specifics originally requested.


~ Jeff

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vfotog
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Sep 13, 2015 03:20 |  #27

TooManyHobbies wrote in post #17705239 (external link)
BUT THERE IS NO REASON TO SINK TO THE LEVEL OF CALLING THE GIRL A PRODUCT OF INCEST OR SUGGESTING HER PARENTS WOULD DO SUCH A THING.

seriously, you might want to reread things before you post. perhaps English isn't your first language, but I quite clearly didn't say what you posted. reread and reread again until you understand what was written. wow.




  
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Risquéness and 16 Year Old Models?
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