What is the point of the camera and lens sample sections?

Looking thru quite a few of the threads in both the camera and less sample archives, I have to wonder what the point is. The images have all been compressed and most heavily retouched, especially sharpened. This does not give you an accurate depiction of what the camera or the lens do without some crafty post processing work. I think it makes more sense to have the photo sharing section for all the retouched, post processed pics but leave the camera and lens sample sections for the images straight off the camera. I believe thats how its supped to be given the descriptions of the camera and lens sample section but its obvious most photos have seen a ton of post processing work. Shame.

1.) EVERY photo you've EVER seen has been 'processed'.

2.) I look at sample sections for a lot of reasons. Most of the time it is to see how other people use a particular piece of equipment, and what kind of results they get. It helps me both broaden and sharpen my skills.

3.) There are quite often comments to go along with the samples that provide insight into what the shooter was expecting, and how she feels about what she got.

4.) There are lots of comments from other shooters about some samples. I learn a bit about critiquing my own work from perusing the work of others.

5.) I suppose, that if I already knew everything about all the equipment I may ever purchase, I'd find those sections superfluous. That is not likely to happen anytime soon.

I agree with both of you 100%. Every photo has been processed whether it's on film or digital. Sometimes i see the original in-camera image and it looks nothing like the post image and going further what you see on your monitor and what I see on mine can be worlds apart. Even so, I do like seeing what other people point their camera at.

I think of it more like "This is what you can get IF you do the necessary post-work", but even with the images that aren't retouched...most of those are jpgs straight out of camera. The camera applies all sorts of corrections and adjustments from sharpening, contrast, CA corrections, color balance, etc (depending on which profile) all of which greatly affect the way an image looks.

Ideally everyone would post raw samples but that can get tricky for a number of reasons. Instead I just try to look at as many different examples as possible when starting to research gear, and look for patterns that would suggest good/bad performance.

A photograph is not simply the image made by a camera and a lens. What you find in the sample galleries are their potential in the hands of any given photographer. From those images, you can begin to see what you may be able to do with the camera or the lens. Will you produce the same body work... for good or for bad? Of course not. But you will get a better idea of or inspiration for what images you might be able to create.

The point is that those sample threads are showcasing what people have done using that particular camera/lens.

If you follow the threads long enough, especially the lens threads you will find over time a good crossection of what the lens is capable in the hands of a variety of users. You have to ignore the overly processed images and those that don't fit the type and style of photography you intend to do

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Actually, OP has a point. Perhaps for Camera and Lens section, Admin can suggest that the samples loaded should not be retouched.

Otherwise, the only other way is to ask the poster for a untouched file.

dexter75 wrote in post #17682789
Looking thru quite a few of the threads in both the camera and less sample archives, I have to wonder what the point is. The images have all been compressed and most heavily retouched, especially sharpened. This does not give you an accurate depiction of what the camera or the lens do without some crafty post processing work. I think it makes more sense to have the photo sharing section for all the retouched, post processed pics but leave the camera and lens sample sections for the images straight off the camera. I believe that's how its supped to be given the descriptions of the camera and lens sample section but its obvious most photos have seen a ton of post processing work. Shame.

I think that the post processing is a secondary problem. The main issue for me is that the samples have been so compressed that you are only seeing a tiny fraction of the data original captured. For example, I take a 5DII image, 21 mp and resize resulting in less than 1mb in essence tossing 95% of the original image data, then converting to jpeg tossing 6 of the 14 bits of color info. You are trying to judge the quality of the lens while looking at < 3% of the original image.

Aswald wrote in post #17683130
Actually, OP has a point. Perhaps for Camera and Lens section, Admin can suggest that the samples loaded should not be retouched.

Otherwise, the only other way is to ask the poster for a untouched file.

Totally unworkable. The 135L is a great portrait lens, but most of the people who do portrait work do at least some minor retouching. A ban on retouching would pretty much cause everyone to abandon the thread. Same goes for any portrait lens thread. You might find more pure threads in the lenses that are used for landscapes or wildlife. But the desire for purity is misguided.

gjl711 wrote in post #17683138
I think that the post processing is a secondary problem. The main issue for me is that the samples have been so compressed that you are only seeing a tiny fraction of the data original captured. For example, I take a 5DII image, 21 mp and resize resulting in less than 1mb in essence tossing 95% of the original image data, then converting to jpeg tossing 6 of the 14 bits of color info. You are trying to judge the quality of the lens while looking at < 3% of the original image.

That problem can be mitigated if the user uploads their pictures to Flickr at full resolution (as I and many others do). Sure, there's still compression, but if you view the "original" file it's pretty close to how it was when you uploaded it. All you have to do is click on the Flickr link when you see a photo you find interesting or a good example and it will open in Flickr, then you can view it at it's original size.

gonzogolf wrote in post #17683146
Totally unworkable. The 135L is a great portrait lens, but most of the people who do portrait work do at least some minor retouching. A ban on retouching would pretty much cause everyone to abandon the thread. Same goes for any portrait lens thread. You might find more pure threads in the lenses that are used for landscapes or wildlife. But the desire for purity is misguided.

Not saying ban retouching at all. Im saying, if you shoot portraits, thats great, put it in the portraits section along with what lens was used and leave the lens sample thread for straight off the camera samples. Thats the best way to get the best feel for the lens. Showing images that have been worked on in LR or PS for an hour and sharpened to hell and back don't give a true representation of a lens. I can make a shot done with the $75 Canon 50 f/1.8 look like it was shot with the $1500 50 f/1.2L with about 10 minutes of post process work. Sharpen it up, add bokeh, play with the saturation and contrast...people would think its some amazing lens that rivals L glass. I just feels it misrepresents the lenses.

dexter75 wrote in post #17683191
Not saying ban retouching at all. Im saying, if you shoot portraits, thats great, put it in the portraits section along with what lens was used and leave the lens sample thread for straight off the camera samples. Thats the best way to get the best feel for the lens. Showing images that have been worked on in LR or PS for an hour and sharpened to hell and back don't give a true representation of a lens. I can make a shot done with the $75 Canon 50 f/1.8 look like it was shot with the $1500 50 f/1.2L with about 10 minutes of post process work. Sharpen it up, add bokeh, play with the saturation and contrast...people would think its some amazing lens that rivals L glass. I just feels it misrepresents the lenses.

Yes, I agree with this.

To showcase your work, there is always the photograph thread to do that. For lens and camera review, it should be as straight forward as possible and as unedited as possible.

It should give viewers a good idea of native resolution, sharpness, color, etc....so that potential buyers will have a good idea of what exactly they are getting.

Not everyone here is interested in the purity of tech. For some the post processing is as much a part of the creation as the exposure itself. It would be anathema for those photographers to present a naked raw image.

There would be a lot less traffic. Hmm ....

For technical purists, we might as well have a sample thread for each camera + lens combo. Either that or be able to filter for camera for each lens thread and vice versa.

I say if you want pure technical ability of lenses, unadulterated samples, their sharpness and color rendition, visit the lens review either here, digitalpicture or similar.