Bounce Flash

So not only am I new to the community here....I am also new to the photography world. I have always used my phone to take pictures. My son is now in college and playing soccer. I decided to buy a dslr and settled on a canon Rebel T5 bundle. See link for what I bought. This bundle here is what I ordered. I know it's not the greatest thing out there but it's what I could afford.
http://www.beachcamera​.com …s45Vj93WHYQu8Ia​Avqy8P8HAQ

The flash that came with this appears to be very cheap and fights me everytime I try to put it on. I was at walmart and seen a bounce flash. It's a sunpak DF3000. See link here from a different store for specs and info.
http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …0C_Digital_Flas​h_for.html

I'm just looking for something better than what came with this bundle to use to take photos of my son playing college soccer and of course indoor photos of family on holidays and what not. Don't really want to spend hundreds of dollars and I know you get what you pay for. Just thought I would ask for some advise or opinions from someone that perhaps knows more about photography than I do. I have been told that i should use a flash outdoors while using my zoom lens that came with the bundle to block out shadows and stuff. So not sure if this is powerful enough to do so or not. My zoom lensnis 75-300mm and the flash zoom range is 28-85mm so not sure if it will do what i need ot to do or not. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Heya,

It's not as simple as just using flash outdoors during sports. The sync speed of your camera's shutter (to stop motion in sports) and the flash will not do what you're wanting to do, in day light. Even a high speed sync flash will not do this very well at long distance, at all. At best, it will serve as fill flash, but even then, it will not be effective for sports due to distance. Without high speed sync, with a slow shutter speed (1/200s sync speed, way too slow for sports with ambient light present), you will just get blurry photos with good fill light. So you see the issue.

If you're shooting outside sports and you're new to photography in general, don't bother with flash. You want a fast shutter, and lots of ISO. 1/1000s, F-whatever you can, and put ISO through the roof (ISO 1600, 3200, 6400 would be starting points depending on light).

If you're shooting indoors and you want better light and all that, a flash unit bounced is an excellent thing to add. I would suggest looking into a Yongnuo 565EX II, ETTL capable flash. Great for indoor bounce ETTL shooting for excellent exposures in bad light. Not for sports though.

I really suggest you take time and learn photography at this point before you buy more. Ultimately you could have made a much better sporting package for the money, but I know you don't want to hear that unless you're able to return your bundle. Knowing what you're doing will help you understand purchase needs.

Very best,

Listen to what Martin says above...he's giving some good advice. The Yongnuo flashes are good and the 565EX II one of the more powerful and feature rich ones. I wouldn't worry with those Walmart Sunpacks. For the Yongnuo, eBay can be your friend...$80-$85. Eneloop rechargeable AA batteries are nice, too! Eight batteries gives you a set in the flash and a backup set. Much cheaper battery solution in the long run and they perform better than standard alkalines. Many times they're sold in a "kit" with charger. Otherwise, buy batteries only and purchase a good 3rd party charger.

It is generally understood that "sensor noise" is better than "camera shake/blur". At times the only way to achieve higher shutter speeds (and less camera shake) is to increase the ISO (which increases noise). "Noise" being the lesser of the two evils.

Best wishes,
Ed

Appreciate the feedback. I went ahead and ordered the YN 565 EXII and a diffuser. Cost me 102.00 shipped to the door for both with Saturday delivery.

Steve1828 wrote in post #17685646
Appreciate the feedback. I went ahead and ordered the YN 565 EXII and a diffuser. Cost me 102.00 shipped to the door for both with Saturday delivery.

It's very easy to use. Put on your camera, set it to ETTL, point it at the ceiling or wall (not at your subjects) and you've got great indoor lighting that will have very good exposure. Excellent for spontaneous use in the house, indoors in general.

For sports, again, don't try mix in flash just yet (or at all really). The shutter speed to stop motion, and flash output power will not match up well and you get one or the other basically. Just push ISO as high as you need to get the shutter speed you need to stop motion at whatever aperture you're using.

Very best,

That's a good flash, Steve. Be aware of "colored" ceilings and walls. Bouncing off of a pastel green wall is going to, well, make folks look a little ill. You'll get the hang of it. You'll be amazed at the different quality shots you get by bouncing. Rather than that tiny rectangular light source blasting straight at the subject you will turn a wall or ceiling into a giant diffused light source. There is a small built in diffuser and also a small white card. When you pull the diffuser out it will flip down against the flashes lens. When you pull the white card out it doesn't flip down against the flash's lens but rather stays standing straight up. When you have the white card pulled out and you are bouncing your flash the flash will hit the and bounce a small amount of light back to your subject...this will create "catch lights" in their eyes...very pleasing.

Best wishes and have fun with your new equipment!!!

Ed

]Appreciate the feedback. I went ahead and ordered the YN 565 EXII and a diffuser. Cost me 102.00 shipped to the door for both with Saturday

Do some research in diffusers. They dont really diffuse in the way people think they do.

What do you mean by that? Diffuser diffuse, reflectors reflect, flashes flash

What kind of diffuser are you looking for? For the on-camera diffuser, you could look at my comparison article (for all-around use): best speedlight diffuser. There are plenty of diffusers on the market to choose from, but it really depends on what you want to do with them. There is no silver bullet. Most likely you'll end up buying a few and using them depending on the stuff you shoot.

Green Li wrote in post #17692518
What do you mean by that? Diffuser diffuse, reflectors reflect, flashes flash

What kind of diffuser are you looking for? For the on-camera diffuser, you could look at my comparison article (for all-around use): best speedlight diffuser. There are plenty of diffusers on the market to choose from, but it really depends on what you want to do with them. There is no silver bullet. Most likely you'll end up buying a few and using them depending on the stuff you shoot.

Correction: Flashes flash. Reflectors reflect. Diffusers waste light, waste battery power, and generally don't much help an exposure. Ok, they may help an exposure, but are about the least efficient way of doing so. The best flash accessories available for the money are a white 3"x5" index card and a rubber band. I can do anything with a 580EX II, an index card, and a rubber band that can be done with the likes of Gary Fong, Lumiquest Softbox, or Stofen. An added bonus is that my batteries will last longer. Tried all three of them. Total waste of time, money, and battery power.

Since I am also new to flash work, let me bring you up to speed on a few items. In other words, let me help you scratch the surface . . .

First, find a wise flash-smart mentor. Invaluable.

Second, take the time to watch YouTube and other videos on flash photography – almost as valuable as the mentor.

Third, learn and understand (ie-hammer into your head) that flash photography is basically two shots in one shutter exposure. One is the overall scene exposure, the second is your subject exposure. Unless you are shooting the green box, you must understand this, and the sooner the better. Hint: Not all parameters apply to "both" shots in the flash shot.

Lastly, as soon as you feel comfortable, start thinking off camera flash. The YN-622 gear is very inexpensive, and will be a great (and expandable) way to get started with your YN flash, and learning the OCF world.

These are just the first four things I learned, and I am by no means a flash expert. Far from it.

Green Li wrote in post #17692518
What do you mean by that? Diffuser diffuse, reflectors reflect, flashes flash

What kind of diffuser are you looking for? For the on-camera diffuser, you could look at my comparison article (for all-around use): best speedlight diffuser. There are plenty of diffusers on the market to choose from, but it really depends on what you want to do with them. There is no silver bullet. Most likely you'll end up buying a few and using them depending on the stuff you shoot.

What I mean is that many new users want to slap on a plastic diffuser and think that it will soften the light. As we have proven repeatedly here diffusers don't soften light, at most they even the spread of light and change the specularity. I remember your tests and they pretty much focused on the spread of light. To the OP, research amd understand the effects of the size of light source and softness.

Intheswamp wrote in post #17685697
Rather than that tiny rectangular light source blasting straight at the subject you will turn a wall or ceiling into a giant diffused light source.

There is a small built in diffuser and also a small white card. When you pull the diffuser out it will flip down against the flashes lens. When you pull the white card out it doesn't flip down against the flash's lens but rather stays standing straight up. When you have the white card pulled out and you are bouncing your flash the flash will hit the and bounce a small amount of light back to your subject...this will create "catch lights" in their eyes...very pleasing.!!!

gonzogolf wrote in post #17693435
What I mean is that many new users want to slap on a plastic diffuser and think that it will soften the light. As we have proven repeatedly here diffusers don't soften light, at most they even the spread of light and change the specularity. I remember your tests and they pretty much focused on the spread of light. To the OP, research amd understand the effects of the size of light source and softness.

The terms 'diffuser' is quite commonly misused, and gonzogolf is speaking in a correct manner on the topic...so as a point of clarification to not get the OP using the term incorrectly...

• The flip down clear supplemental lens is never a 'diffuser' (that which increases the AREA -- as viewed by the subject -- of apparent light source), rather it only alters the angle of spread of the beam so that it can illuminate an extra wide area photographed only with really Wide Angle lenses.
  
• The white flip up device could be a 'diffuser' if large enough, but in the case of the white card built into a flash unit, it is too small to do any good because its area is no larger than the area (as viewed by the subject) illuminated within the flash lens itself! Only apparent SIZE of a light source determines effectivity of a 'diffuser'.
  
• The white flip up device is a 'reflector' so that, when the flash is aimed upward to bounce light off the ceiling so that the ceiling serves as a 'diffuser' (that which increases the AREA of apparent light source), some light is reflected forward to the subject, so that some glint is seen in the eyes.
  
• The sun is huge, but its apparent size to us is 'small'. An overcast sky serves as a huge 'diffuser' of the sun, so that the apparent size of the source (which is the cloud-filled sky) is huge.
  
  

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17692578
Correction: Flashes flash. Reflectors reflect. Diffusers waste light, waste battery power, and generally don't much help an exposure....Total waste of time, money, and battery power.

^The devices that GeoKras1989 refers to are very small (like a Stofen or a Lightsphere), they do not increase the apparent size of the light source by much (2-3x increase of 4.5 sq.in. is not much of an increase at all!) unless you have a reflective ceiling to serve as the large apparent light source...which is not the case when used outside. In outdoor use, pull off these wasters of light and drainers of batteries, as they are useless outdoors.

I think one of the best resources for flash (indoor and out) would be one of Syl Arena's books.

Or HERE

Neil is a master with bounced speedliting.

Wilt wrote in post #17693450
The terms 'diffuser' is quite commonly misused, and gonzogolf is speaking in a correct manner on the topic...so as a point of clarification to not get the OP using the term incorrectly...

• The flip down clear supplemental lens is never a 'diffuser' (that which increases the AREA -- as viewed by the subject -- of apparent light source), rather it only alters the angle of spread of the beam so that it can illuminate an extra wide area photographed only with really Wide Angle lenses.
  
• The white flip up device could be a 'diffuser' if large enough, but in the case of the white card built into a flash unit, it is too small to do any good because its area is no larger than the area (as viewed by the subject) illuminated within the flash lens itself! Only apparent SIZE of a light source determines effectivity of a 'diffuser'.
  
• The white flip up device is a 'reflector' so that, when the flash is aimed upward to bounce light off the ceiling so that the ceiling serves as a 'diffuser' (that which increases the AREA of apparent light source), some light is reflected forward to the subject, so that some glint is seen in the eyes.
  
• The sun is huge, but its apparent size to us is 'small'. An overcast sky serves as a huge 'diffuser' of the sun, so that the apparent size of the source (which is the cloud-filled sky) is huge.
  
  

^The devices that GeoKras1989 refers to are very small (like a Stofen or a Lightsphere), they do not increase the apparent size of the light source by much (2-3x increase of 4.5 sq.in. is not much of an increase at all!) unless you have a reflective ceiling to serve as the large apparent light source...which is not the case when used outside. In outdoor use, pull off these wasters of light and drainers of batteries, as they are useless outdoors.

This post and the reference to gonzogolf is dead on the money. What I thought was diffusion at one time to what it really is was way off. I took some lighting courses, followed the flash forums, studied Neil van Niekerk and realized it is simple physics and there are no magic bullets. The manufacturers and resellers of gimmick diffusers make lot a of money off magic bullets. Not saying the flashes bounce card is a gimmick. It is a just a tool with a specific job.