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Thread started 20 Sep 2015 (Sunday) 17:09
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Photoshoot with the Canon EOS 5Ds and the old 85mm 1.2 Mk.1 (my review)

 
NemethR
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Post edited over 8 years ago by NemethR. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 20, 2015 17:09 |  #1

I was looking into buying a Canon 5Ds (not the R) for the last month.
I read a lot of info about the camera, like for example, that I will need to use higher shutter speeds because the high resolution.
I was almost sure, that I would want to buy the Camera, but was not so sure if the 85mm prime would be a good choice.

So I asked Canon, if I could test the camera, and they said: Yes
I got a 5Ds and an old 85mm 1.2 L (Mk.1) lens, and I asked a nice little model to let me shoot some pictures of her.

Here is my review:

GEAR:
- Canon EOS 5Ds (not the R)
- Canon 85mm f/1.2 L USM (The old Mk1, 1989 design, discontinued in 2005)
- Canon 24-105 f/4 L IS USM (borrowed it from my friend for a few shots, to compare sharpness)

EXPECTATIONS:
- Very high resolution.
- Great AF system
- Not really sharp pictures, because the old lens, and the AA fiter in the camera.

THE SHOOT:
We met around 10:00 am, had a nice little talk with the modell till she was prepairing herself, and started off in the studio of my dear friend, Szilárd.
I explored the camera in the mean time, and compared it to my 5D mark II.

The things I noticed prior the shoot:
- Lack of the battery grip, I reall missed that one (of course I can buy one).
- Very intuitive to use, basicly it has the very same basic functionality as any other higher-end Canon DSLR.
Only thing I had to think about is how to change the AF system to single focus point. I solved that in like 5 seconds.
- The Camera feels very good in the hand, is even better then the 5D2, you can grip the camera more stable.
- The rear LCD gives a beaufitul picture, it has a big view angle, you can see it even in sunligh very good, and has amazing colors and contrast.

Once our dear model was ready we started with some glamour like shots in the studio, with constant light, before a white backround on a bed.

First things I noticed at the beginning of the shoot:
- Lens focuses really slowly at the beginning, but is actually not an issue at all when you shoot a model, as you rarely change your distance drasticly, and the micro-focusing is fast enough. From Infinite to minimal distance its a loooong time, but adjusting the focus a few centimeters is as fast as with any other lens.
- 61 AF points is amazing to have... Especially after I had 9 in the 5D2.
I did not have any situation during the shoot where I was not able to select a focus point exactly where I wanted to focus, and did not have to recompose.
- The prime lens is a good excersize, as I have to foot-zoom the whole day, and I noticed how lazy I have become with the zooms :D
- f/1.2 is amazing to have, I tested the lens wide open, or at large apetures, stoped down just a little bit, more on that later.
- My 25MB/sec CF cards had a hard time writing data, as I was shooting in RAW. --> Deifnately need a fast card.

Anyway back to the shoot, I reviewed a few pictures during the shoot, and I was really surprised.
- The camera, when you zoom in to the picture, actually zooms to that point where the AF point was selected, this is a very nice feature, to review the pictures.
- To my biggest surprise the pictures were super-sharp, even wide open at f/1.2 with the old lens, the amount of detail is incredible.
- Color accuracy in Auto White Balance was a bit off, with those aprox 5500k fixed lights. I think they were not 5500K really, and had some variations in them the pictures turned out to be a tiny little yellow (nothing to worry about tough)

I did shoot a few pictures of the studio interior, to be able to show it to you guys.
So, here is my 1st picture:
(Sorry had to censore out the top left picture)


This was shot at f/2.; 1/80s, ISO 400

IMAGE: http://i62.tinypic.com/2ze9t0w.jpg
In case it is not displayed: http://i62.tinypic.com​/2ze9t0w.jpg (external link)

Here is a 100% crop of the old camera on the right side, around the middle:
IMAGE: http://i62.tinypic.com/rksga9.jpg
In case it is not displayed: http://i62.tinypic.com​/rksga9.jpg (external link)

And here is another of the painting to the left:
IMAGE: http://i58.tinypic.com/x0oexi.jpg
In case it is not displayed: http://i58.tinypic.com​/x0oexi.jpg (external link)

I think, that you can clearly see, that even that old lens, designed in 1989 can resolve at this quality, and that is what really surprised me.

And here is another picture: - It continues to the right, but tought I better censore that out.

Shot at f/1.8; 1/125s; ISO 100
IMAGE: http://i57.tinypic.com/16a4r2u.jpg
In case it is not displayed: http://i57.tinypic.com​/16a4r2u.jpg (external link)


Here is a 100% crop of the eyes: (These pictures are SOOC RAW files with Sharpening at 0
IMAGE: http://i58.tinypic.com/2ic2st2.jpg
In case it is not displayed: http://i58.tinypic.com​/2ic2st2.jpg (external link)

And another one of her mouth:
IMAGE: http://i60.tinypic.com/sevpxt.jpg
In case it is not displayed: http://i60.tinypic.com​/sevpxt.jpg (external link)


I still think, that for such an old lens, this is a very-very nice sharpness, I was expecting much less.
Speaking of witch...


Another surprise was waiting for me.
I switched the lens out to the 24-105 f/4 L IS USM, and what I found shocked me.

Most of the pictures taken with the 24-105 were not sharp at all, I can't really show a full picture with the 24-105, as they are nude pictures, but here is a 100% crop, focus was set to the eyes: Also note: For some reason all pictures with the 24-105 were a bit under exposed (I used Auto-ISO, and did not have any issue with the 85mm)

IMAGE: http://i62.tinypic.com/121txti.jpg
In case it is not displayed: http://i62.tinypic.com​/121txti.jpg (external link)


Then we palned to go have a nice dinner. but before that I wanted to test the HIGH ISO of the camera, so we swiched the light off, and here is a 100% crop at f/1.2 and ISO 3200: (Again can't really show the full pucture, as there is too much clothing missing.)
IMAGE: http://i57.tinypic.com/bgepa0.jpg
In case it is not displayed: http://i57.tinypic.com​/bgepa0.jpg (external link)
* I think the focus here was slightly off, due to the lack of light in the room


To summarize up my findings for indoor shooting:
- With large apetures like f/1.2 ... 1.8 there is really no issue with the camera, you can use ISO 100 most of the time.
- High ISO of the 5Ds is a bit better then that of the 5D Mk.2, but is not as good as that of the 5D Mk.3
- 85mm indoors: I had no problems using it, really there was no situation where I had to go even more back, to frame the Model properly, that was one of my fears before the Photoshoot, that I will need more distance to the model indoors. Most of the time I was 1-4 meters from the model. Really any room is large enough for that.
- I still did not have any situation, where I did not find a focus point on her eyes.
- The Shutter sound is very-very silent, I did not measure it, but to me it feels like less then half the noise of the 5D Mark II. - It was NOT in silent mode.

Roland | Amateur Photographer
Nikon D850 | Nikon D80 | Nikon 70-200 f/2.8G ED VR II | Nikon 24-70 f/2.8G ED

  
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NemethR
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Post edited over 8 years ago by NemethR. (5 edits in all)
     
Sep 20, 2015 17:15 |  #2

After the dinner we continued to shoot outdoors:

We had a little chat, and fun, this was shot just for fun, f/1.2 wide open, with the sun shining.
You really NEED 1/8000s here.

IMAGE: http://i62.tinypic.com/ynwxx.jpg
In case it is not displayed: http://i62.tinypic.com​/ynwxx.jpg (external link)

And a 100% crop, at f/1.2 --> here the old lens shows its limits. (I actually think, that the AF system focused on the hair, as there was more contrast)
If so, then shaprness is impressive.
IMAGE: http://i60.tinypic.com/x29wfc.jpg
In case it is not displayed: http://i60.tinypic.com​/x29wfc.jpg (external link)

We shoot some "strip" shots in the shade, this it the first picture of it:
IMAGE: http://i57.tinypic.com/14tu00l.jpg
In case it is not displayed: http://i57.tinypic.com​/14tu00l.jpg (external link)

And your 100% crop here. - Note look at the bokeh :)
IMAGE: http://i59.tinypic.com/55m613.jpg
In case it is not displayed: http://i59.tinypic.com​/55m613.jpg (external link)

Up until this time I did not really show a portrait, and here is where the 50megapixels shine:
These were really only made to see the depth of field in a portrait, I know, that the picture is not really flattering :)

The "thing" in the background is a car. (btw) @ f/1.2
IMAGE: http://i62.tinypic.com/e9hnpv.jpg
In case it is not displayed: http://i62.tinypic.com​/e9hnpv.jpg (external link)


And a 100% crop:
IMAGE: http://i57.tinypic.com/p56c7.jpg
In case it is not displayed: http://i57.tinypic.com​/p56c7.jpg (external link)

All in all

- This Camera and lens combo is amazing, I can only imagine that the 85mm MK II is even more impressive.
- I was amazed by the results, given, that I did expect much less sharp pictures.
- The new 5Ds can really test any lens, but even an old lens can deliver stunnung results with it. (DXO Mark, you can....)
- The 61point AF system is extemely well designed, and you have almost always an AF point exactly where you need it. (And mostly they are Cross type)
- Camera ergonomics are very nicely designed, you can hold the camera very steady.
- The rear LCD is amazing, the pictures look professional already in the camera :)
- The old 85mm 1.2 (designed in 1989) preforms well with the 5Ds, so old lenses should be no problem to use with the 5Ds - altough the newer ones are sharper, but this is also very sharp.
- For some reason the 24-105 I tried was not up to the task (maybe Micro adjust would be needed)
- The pictures were 80% spot on ragarding focus accuracy and sharpness, the ones where sharpness was not so good is mostly because I or the model moved slightly AFTEr the focus was achieved.
- High ISO is very nice, but could be better (always). For portraiture its more then exeptional. You will use ISO 100-200-400 anyway :)
- For pixel peepers, the above pictures might not be the most impressive, but I think in a realistic scenario, the sharpness is incredible.
I just printed a 17.5 Megapixel picture in the size of 1.5 meters x 1 meter, and it looks stunning even close up, so imagine what you can print with this one.


VERDICT:

- The EOS 5Ds, if you can afford it is definately worth a buy. It is a camera that can do anything a photographer would need (in normal situations), and will continue to be a top camera for at least 5-6 year (in my opinion). pictures are stunning, AF is superior to anything I ever tried.

- The Canon 85mm 1.2 L lens is very nice for portraits, altough suffers from cromatic abberation.
In my opinion sharpness is outstanding, and the Mk II (current version) is said to be even more sharper.
IF you are looking for an amazing portrait lens, this one should be really on top of your list (or better the Mk II).

Roland | Amateur Photographer
Nikon D850 | Nikon D80 | Nikon 70-200 f/2.8G ED VR II | Nikon 24-70 f/2.8G ED

  
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NemethR
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Post edited over 8 years ago by NemethR. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 20, 2015 17:39 |  #3

Note:

I do not know why some of the pictures are NOT displyed, when I edit the post, they are all in the preview, so I added links to them below the pictures, just in case.

Ok, Pekka expalined it, it is not related to the pictures, should be solved shortly.


Roland | Amateur Photographer
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Sep 20, 2015 17:49 |  #4

NemethR wrote in post #17714923 (external link)
Note:

I do not know why some of the pictures are NOT displyed, when I edit the post, they are all in the preview, so I added links to them below the pictures, just in case.

About that: https://photography-on-the.net …read.php?t=1440​941&page=1


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NemethR
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Sep 20, 2015 17:57 |  #5

Thank you for the info :)


Roland | Amateur Photographer
Nikon D850 | Nikon D80 | Nikon 70-200 f/2.8G ED VR II | Nikon 24-70 f/2.8G ED

  
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DreamMaker23
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Post edited over 8 years ago by DreamMaker23. (3 edits in all)
     
Sep 21, 2015 09:27 |  #6

Too slow of a shutter speed for your range in focal length.
Try to double the shutter speed from which is your focus length.
You will clearly see, how sharp it will get.

Try 1/200 if shooting with the 85mm.
then try at 1/150,
& then try at 1/80.

You will see the difference. In general, always try to double your shutter speed to the focal length of your lense. But if you need a slow shutter, then put that thang on a tripod. :lol:


Let me know how it goes.

(BTW, when shooting for "sharpness" f1.2 is not the sharpest point for that 85mm lens, try something like f2.8 or f4.0 or better yet f8.0)




  
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NemethR
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Sep 22, 2015 01:22 |  #7

DreamMaker23 wrote in post #17715718 (external link)
Too slow of a shutter speed for your range in focal length.
Try to double the shutter speed from which is your focus length.
You will clearly see, how sharp it will get.

Try 1/200 if shooting with the 85mm.
then try at 1/150,
& then try at 1/80.

You will see the difference. In general, always try to double your shutter speed to the focal length of your lense. But if you need a slow shutter, then put that thang on a tripod. :lol:


Let me know how it goes.

(BTW, when shooting for "sharpness" f1.2 is not the sharpest point for that 85mm lens, try something like f2.8 or f4.0 or better yet f8.0)


I generally tried to test the lens/camera combo, and tried to be at around 1/160s
But I think the pictures are very sharp, compared to what I expected.
I can't complain about them.

The only thing is: Why are almost all pictures with the 24-105 unsharp, yet almost all with the 85mm are sharp.


Roland | Amateur Photographer
Nikon D850 | Nikon D80 | Nikon 70-200 f/2.8G ED VR II | Nikon 24-70 f/2.8G ED

  
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Sep 22, 2015 05:52 |  #8

I just made a little test, 5DS R +100-200L 2.8 II@85mm, vs. +85L 1.2 MkI, vs. +24-105L@85mm.

I found that:

- 100-200L II was noticeably better than the 85L @85mm

- the 85L was slightly better than the 24-105L

- the 24-105L was acceptable @85mm

I would say that your unacceptable results with the 24-105L would likely be due to AMA, something wrong with the lens... or User error.  :p


Canon : EOS R : 5DIV : 5DS R : 5DIII : 7DII : 40 2.8 : 50 1.4 : 35L : 85L : 100L IS Macro : 135L : 16-35L II : RF-24-105L IS : 70-200L II : 100-400L IS II : 1.4x & 2x TC III : 600EX-RT : 580EX : 430EX : G1XII : Markins Q10 & Q3T : Jobu Gimbal : Manfrotto Underware : etc...

  
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NemethR
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Sep 22, 2015 08:42 |  #9

John_T wrote in post #17717079 (external link)
I just made a little test, 5DS R +100-200L 2.8 II@85mm, vs. +85L 1.2 MkI, vs. +24-105L@85mm.

I found that:

- 100-200L II was noticeably better than the 85L @85mm

- the 85L was slightly better than the 24-105L

- the 24-105L was acceptable @85mm

I would say that your unacceptable results with the 24-105L would likely be due to AMA, something wrong with the lens... or User error.  :p

MA was my tought too.
Anyway, I am very impressed with the results of the 85mm 1.2L Mk1


Roland | Amateur Photographer
Nikon D850 | Nikon D80 | Nikon 70-200 f/2.8G ED VR II | Nikon 24-70 f/2.8G ED

  
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P4ulG
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Sep 22, 2015 09:20 |  #10

Good review Very informative Thanks


Canon 6D Canon 600D Canons 24-105mm L 85mm 1.4 IS L 70-300mm L. 100mm F2.8 macro L IS. 16-35mm L nifty fifty. 55-250mm IS. Speedlights Siggy DG530 super Canon EX430II Vivitar 3700

  
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Submariner
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Sep 22, 2015 09:23 |  #11

Well now you have me SERIOUSLY EXTREMELY worried!

I was literally about to order a grey version of the 5DS R, on the basis there were not any Major negative horror stories about this camera ( e.g. No focusing issues like the 7DII ). So worth the risk of getting a grey copy.

Maybe its this site, or tinypics but the image resolution on these photos are appalling, soft, grainy, out of focus and lacking in detail.
I can take a better image quality pic with my iPad Air. My 5D3 and 70-200L F2.8 II utterly destroy these.

I hope its just, the viewing mechanism / compression engine, of this web site, but looking at tiny pics and the raw copy it can't be POTN's fault.

Now. WTF do I do ??? :( :( :( :( :( I have 5 shoots lined up , as soon as I get the camera - promising the image quality will be spectacular. These images have less detail than my old 7D :( and are much fuzzier, and out of focus.

Is this just a one off fault camera,?
or without, being rude does the OP actually know how to use the AF system. Hell if I delivered IQ like that on a Portfolio, forget getting paid - they would demand I paid them for wasting their time.

Any help on this please. For example when I saw say Wallstreetoneils images I just thought " I need one of those cameras right NOW! :) :) "

OP would you pm me so you can send me one image, directly to my email, even a JPEG circs 19 MB, so I can see what its really like. I am hoping its something to domwith compression engines etc. Creating something that thIs new retina display cant work with.

Does anyone else see the horrendous quality, or is it just me, ? or maybe my iPad Air has malfunctioned.


Canon EOS 5DS R, Canon EF 70-200 F2.8 L Mk II IS USM, Canon EF 70-300 F4-5.6 L IS USM, EF 40mm F2.8 STM , RC6 Remote. Canon STE-3 Radio Flash Controller, Canon 600 EX RT x4 , YN 560 MkII x2 ; Bowens GM500PRO x4 , Bowens Remote Control. Bowens Pulsar TX, RX Radio Transmitter and Reciever Cards. Bowens Constant 530 Streamlights 600w x 4 Sold EOS 5D Mk III, 7D, EF 50mm F1.8, 430 EX Mk II, Bowens GM500Rs x4

  
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NemethR
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Sep 22, 2015 10:34 |  #12

Submariner wrote in post #17717242 (external link)
Well now you have me SERIOUSLY EXTREMELY worried!

I have sent you a PM


Roland | Amateur Photographer
Nikon D850 | Nikon D80 | Nikon 70-200 f/2.8G ED VR II | Nikon 24-70 f/2.8G ED

  
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Lichter21c
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Sep 22, 2015 14:02 as a reply to  @ Submariner's post |  #13

If you think those are soft... I would love to see what you think is sharp.

Those 100% crops are pretty darn impressive. If I had the money, I would JUMP all over a 5Ds....

Maybe it's time for new glasses :)




  
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agedbriar
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Post edited over 8 years ago by agedbriar. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 22, 2015 14:14 |  #14

Submariner wrote in post #17717242 (external link)
Does anyone else see the horrendous quality, or is it just me, ? or maybe my iPad Air has malfunctioned.

No, you are not alone.

Below is 5D3 with the 135L at 2.8, normally sharpened.

IMAGE: https://photography-on-the.net/forum/images/hostedphotos_lq/2015/09/4/LQ_749408.jpg
Image hosted by forum (749408) © agedbriar [SHARE LINK]
THIS IS A LOW QUALITY PREVIEW. Please log in to see the good quality stuff.



  
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Lichter21c
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Sep 22, 2015 14:38 as a reply to  @ agedbriar's post |  #15

That's a "stopped" down shot at 2.8.

The OPs is wide open at 1.2. A heck of a difference. With 2.5 times the pixels? On a 20 some year old lens? That's not on a list of canons "approved" lenses

I would be more than happy with that IQ on a 100% crop at 1.2




  
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