Copyright/model release question

Hi all,

I have a couple of questions which I need some help on please.

Back in May I took some images of some athletes at a public event in the middle of a city. As with all my other images (aviation, nature etc) they are for sale on my personal website, but I don’t have model release forms from any of the athletes.

1) Am I allowed to sell images of people without a model release form?
2) An agent for one of the athletes has approached me asking if I will allow some of the images to be used on the athletes own website with credit given to me. There’s no mention of payment, but clearly I’d prefer some compensation since I see value in the images. Am I politely allowed to ask for compensation or can they pull me up for selling images without the model release? Might they turn round & go “you shouldn’t be selling them without his permission anyway”.

Many thanks!

Jason

Based on your URL in your signature, I assume you're somewhere in the UK. Be aware that laws vary by country and region/state, so what's applicable for me in Florida might not be exactly the same as someone in California, and definitely not the same as someone in the UK.

(1)
For me, here in Florida:
- Copyright is governed by federal (country-wide) laws. I retain copyright unless I sign them away.

- Right to Publicity is governed by state law. I can sell the photos as art without the subject's knowledge or permission. I can NOT use the photos commercially - that is, to imply that the subject endorses a product or service.

(2) Yes, you may politely ask for compensation. You might not get it. A credit next to the image has practically zero value - though now you're "published," for whatever that's worth.
Yes, it is possible that they will do exactly what you suspect, and that's to tell you that you can't sell the images without the athlete's release. Whether they have any legal standing to tell you that ... well, that depends on your local laws. Definitely do your research before responding.

If the same athletes are buying photos of themselves, you don't really need a release form. Selling the same photos to a third party for the purpose of promotion, you would need the athletes' consents.

TooManyShots wrote in post #17728903
If the same athletes are buying photos of themselves, you don't really need a release form. Selling the same photos to a third party for the purpose of promotion, you would need the athletes' consents.

Selling & using are two different things. I would word that, "You can sell the same photos to a third party for the purpose of promotion, but someone would have to obtain the athlete's consent before the image was used."

Right...of course, I would assume the third party is trying to promote his or her business or organizations with the said photos.

guys - firstly big thanks for the replies - appreciate them

Nathan - agree that "being published & showing my name is of no value". too many times ive had people contacting me saying i don't have a budget but can i use it on my blog/book & ive gone ahead & let them. my photography isn't my actual job but income i do get just helps towards gear

photoguys - from what ive read that's correct, i can effectively sell to whoever i want but the publishing of images is where the model release/consent kicks in

toomanyshots - i think that's the case - they're trying to promote themselves on their own site

i am in the uk by the way, the guidelines seem grey at best... http://www.digitalcame​raworld.com …ights-the-ultimate-guide/

i think i'll go back & ask what kind of compensation they were considering & leave it as short as that

ive not sold any images from my "people" gallery so i dont feel ive done anything wrong thus far & i think the worst that can happen is a response comes back saying "no compensation, take the credit or leave it, and by the way, please take down the pics of my athlete"

thoughts?

Under UK law you are free to sell your images as prints or digital files and to license them for use in news media. You can even use them for advertising because the UK, unlike the US, has no "image rights" laws.

That doesn't mean that someone wont sue if you use their image in an advert... they just won't win. However if the subject were a particularly famous person they might win in certain situations (not the OPs) by claiming that you are "passing off". http://www.thedrum.com …ations-rihanna-vs-topshop.

wellsie82 wrote in post #17728975
i think i'll go back & ask what kind of compensation they were considering & leave it as short as that

I think that is a fine response. Put simply they want to use the image to promote the athlete. The purpose of promotion is to increase awareness and thus make the individual more valuable to sponsors, so they will be earning money off your image. No reason why you shouldn't.

Sure. It's called business. The athlete's agent is getting paid for providing value, why shouldn't you?

Dan Marchant wrote in post #17729669
Under UK law you are free to sell your images as prints or digital files and to license them for use in news media. You can even use them for advertising because the UK, unlike the US, has no "image rights" laws.

That doesn't mean that someone wont sue if you use their image in an advert... they just won't win. However if the subject were a particularly famous person they might win in certain situations (not the OPs) by claiming that you are "passing off". http://www.thedrum.com …ations-rihanna-vs-topshop.

I think that is a fine response. Put simply they want to use the image to promote the athlete. The purpose of promotion is to increase awareness and thus make the individual more valuable to sponsors, so they will be earning money off your image. No reason why you shouldn't.

good information Dan - thank you!

they've since responded to say their budget isn't enough to cover images but tbh ive heard it all too often. as a minimum each year, i look to cover the cost of my smugmug account & anything else just goes into gear so its not like im after profit

as has been said before, showing my name against the image means nothing & it's of no value but i'll give it some thought before i do go back...

texkam wrote in post #17729750
Sure. It's called business. The athlete's agent is getting paid for providing value, why shouldn't you?

fair comment - i just wanted to make sure it was simply that easy & the response back to me wasn't going to be something like "well did he give you permission to sell/post them anyway?"

You should just stand your ground, no more thinking needed. If you go the 'what the heck, just this one time let them have free photos' they'll just continue to use lame excuses to avoid paying for work that has value.

Let them shoot the athlete's photos with their iPhone, maybe when they see how much the pictures suck they'll realise the value of good images. And if iPhonography and selfies are good enough for them, they just won't see the value nor pay for it at all.

wellsie82 wrote in post #17730271
they've since responded to say their budget isn't enough to cover images but tbh ive heard it all too often.

Every time I hear this I just think - When running a business you budget for all the things you will need. If your budget didn't include enough money for some of the things you need (IE photos) then you aren't a very good business person and I probably don't want my images associated with your venture.

Ask the agent if he would be willing to cover your charges out of his salary in exchange for a mention on the website. Tell him you can also give him a shout out on this forum too.

So far, no store has given me anything free of charge because I didn't have budget for food/ale/gear/...

Alveric wrote in post #17730518
You should just stand your ground, no more thinking needed. If you go the 'what the heck, just this one time let them have free photos' they'll just continue to use lame excuses to avoid paying for work that has value.

Let them shoot the athlete's photos with their iPhone, maybe when they see how much the pictures suck they'll realise the value of good images. And if iPhonography and selfies are good enough for them, they just won't see the value nor pay for it at all.

having thought about it, they're getting a no from me. i'll explain the reasons why but fair's fair